Learning Korean, cultural familiarization, and genre acceptance

[oyceter]

Further charting of my headlong fall into obsession! I wrote this only three weeks ago, and I had drafted most of it about two months ago, so it encompasses about 34 hours of kdrama watching and was probably drafted when I had seen about 18 hours worth. This post is being written on about 72 hours of watching (i will not figure out how many hours i watch a day because it is just too embarrassing).

On the nostalgia side of things, I told my mom I was mainlining kdramas, and she seems to heartily approve of my consumption of anything Asian. Well, she's not that excited about my manga and anime addiction (although she does approve of my reading manga translated to Chinese), given the Japan thing and the comic/cartoon thing, but there is still approval. Possibly it also stems from the fact that I asked for cdramas too, and from the fact that a lot of her friends watch dramas as well, as does my sister. I suspect dramas just feel more mainstream to her. Not that I'm arguing, since she sent me a giant pack of old cdramas based on the novels of Taiwanese writer Qiong Yao! And I told her to watch Damo if she can find it, and I told her to ask her friends for more recommendations!

I actually had no idea who Qiong Yao was until I wiki-ed, only to discover that Qiong Yao was behind almost all the cdramas I used to watch in middle school, including Huan Zhu Ge Ge/Princess Pearl, which is the main reason why I am obsessed with Qing Dynasty court clothing! And why I know how ladies of the court would bow with a little handkerchief sweep that possibly me and my sister used to imitate! I'm sure it's not entirely historically accurate, but whatever. I grow interested in things via pop culture exposure; having stories in my head gives me a context for historical events and politics.

Oh! And! The drama pack includes all of Qing Qing He Bian Cao (Green, Green Grass by the River), which OMG! I used to watch! It has two orphans, one of whom is an entirely-too-adorable moppet! The moppet gets a wasting illness! The older orphan falls in love with the master of an upper-class house and there is much angst! She sucks snake-bite poison out of his leg in one very memorable scene!

And! It has the drama with a husband in a Phantom-of-the-Opera-esque mask called "Ghost Husband," and the one in which a lost child is found again because she has a plum blossom brand on her shoulder!

I cannot adequately express my glee! I thought I would never, ever see these again. Maybe my mom will next unearth the old 90s version of Yi Tien Tu Long Ji, which I used to watch and then talk about at school with friends and is probably responsible for my affinity for wuxia.

I cut-tagged all the blathering about language and cultural references and genre tropes for people already sick of my kdrama obsession; I'm mostly writing it down because I think I will have fun rereading later and laughing at myself.

Language

Or: watch me come up with wrong-headed observations based on TV!

I am no longer feeling very lost with the language. I mean, I am by no means familiar with it, but it sounds like Korean now, not like a combination of other languages I'm familiar with. I figured I was getting much more used to it when I tried to write Coffee Prince fic and kept hearing Han Sung saying, "Ya! Ya!" ("Hey! Hey!") in my head, or Eun Chan saying, "Mianada.." (sp., "Sorry"). And of course all her "Aooo, aoooo" and Jang Chul Soo's "Kure so." I am still trying to figure out the context for "aigoo;" a lot of times when I hear it, it's older women speaking, but I'm pretty sure Eun Chan uses it as well. It sounds very casual. And I am pretty sure "-sumida/ka" is the extremely polite verb ending/particle and that da/ka work as statement/question markers.

And interestingly enough, I think I've figured out most of the appellations, and the male/female divide of the speaker doesn't confuse me that much anymore. I think I get more confused when it's "mom" or "dad," just because there are fewer parents around so I don't hear it as much as "oppa" or "hyung" or "unni" or "noonim."

Most of all, though, it's the rhythm of the language. I'm pretty sure I'm getting a dramatized version of it (duh), but it's still neat listening to the rhythms of men and women speaking politely vs. yelling at people and listening to the differences in generations.

Also, because I am a giant dork, I have managed to memorize all the consonants in the Korean alphabet and all the simple vowels, though the complex vowels still confuse me. This means I pause any time there is writing in the frame so I can painstakingly sound out the word with my horrible pronunciation. Alas, I suck at distinguishing the 3 versions of consonants (ex. k, kk, and k with the little horizontal line), and I REALLY suck at distinguishing vowels beyond the a, i, u, and o (and the y- equivalents). Much like when I taught myself hiragana and katakana, I am endlessly amusing myself by trying to spell out the very few Korean words I know and the names of all the characters I can remember. I'm pretty sure my spelling is awful.

Random alphabet notes: I like writing "h" and "ng," and I get confused between "j" and "s," because hangul "j" looks like katakana "su." I am also just dorkily fond of writing hangul in general and making all those nice, neat little syllables.

I haven't managed to pick up any pronouns aside from casual "I," though yhlee lent me an intro Korean textbook years ago (Yoon! I'm pretty sure it is yours, since a photocopy of your "Clockwork Shadows" illustration fell out of it) and hopefully it will concrete-ize a lot of this. It also seems as though Korean has less Pronouns of Significance than Japanese; a lot of the formal/casual bits feel like they're in the appellations instead, but I am totally making that up.

Cultural familiarization

Most of the cultural bits that puzzle me are from Damo; I suspect I will run into this more with sageuk (historical dramas), given my complete ignorance of Korean history. This is not to say that modern Korean culture as portrayed in a handful of trendy dramas is identical to what I know of modern Taiwanese and Japanese culture, but just that the things I see don't feel foreign. They're definitely more similar to the things I know about Taiwan and Japan and further from what I know about America and Europe, but again, cultures != monoliths.

In other cultural notes, like rilina said before, it's just nice being able to see hot Asian guys (who are celebrated as hot! And most definitely sexualized!) and Asian women of all ages who are most definitely not dragon ladies, geisha, submissive wives, or giggling Japanese schoolgirls. I mean, the grandmother hitting people over the head with her handbag is another stereotype, but it's one from kdramas, not from the Western perception of Asian women. And despite the constant privileging of American and European culture and people in kdramas, it's still really nice watching something in which the entire cultural context isn't American or European, particularly since I lack a ton of American and European cultural context.

More genre tropes

Sageuk is what got me excited about kdramas, but I now seem to be completely addicted to trendy dramas. I blame my sister. And Coffee Prince.

I am not too surprised by this, given that I read tons of shoujo, romance novels, and YA chicklit, but I am a little baffled by how willingly I go for set-ups that sound incredibly bad.

Come to think of it, I do this a lot with shoujo manga as well. The meet cutes work much less for me in romances and YA chicklit -- I can do the mutual-enemies thing, but contemporary people who hire pretend boyfriends or dress like guys to work in cafes? Not so much! Unless, of course, it is a manga or kdrama.

I don't think it works for me because they are Asian genres; I suspect it has to do with the length of the work. There's a lot more time in manga and kdramas for everything to play out; I am generally unsatisfied with the conclusions of single books or movies that start from very contrived places just because two hours or 300+ pages is just not enough to get from contrived to solid relationship. I think it also helps to have the impressionistic shoujo art and charming kdrama actors, but by that measure, I would also be taken in by romantic comedy movies.

Wait... no, actually, I take that back. Sometimes the contrivances do work for me in movies, but all the movies I can think of are 1930s movies starring Katharine Hepburn or Rosalind Russell.

I think it may be the tone, then. There's an over-the-top giddiness to some of the contrivances in kdramas that just works for me, from Eun Chan and Han Kyul running in the street with waffles flying behind them to the exaggerated expressions in Fantasy Couple to Dal Ja's imagination. I wonder why I hated Ally McBeal (aside from the fact that the actress' delivery and voice drive me crazy)? It will be interesting to see how tolerant I get of contrivances after more kdrama watching, given that I've mostly gotten sick of them in shoujo manga and romance novels.

But right now, I love having sixteen hours devoted to relationships (usually romances, but often family ties and friendships as well) because it privileges the emo porn I so love, and because there's an end in sight and no stupid replaying of the plot from last season.

Comments

[laurashapiro.livejournal.com]

I keep thinking about Damo!

Am v. impressed that you are learning the language. You are mighty..

[oyceter]

Oh cool! Would be very interested to hear what you think, since there are some things that I totally don't notice and some that I had to get used to (wuxia flying vs. hats, frex).

Um, am not sure if I am mighty so much as a complete dork. I suspect I'll only get through the alphabet and some polite phrases; everything else will need actual classes so I get more listening and speaking skills. I am hoping I will have time in grad school! Plus, Language 101 is always the fun part.

[laurashapiro.livejournal.com]

You can be both dorky and mighty at the same time. Believe me, I know. (:

What I think...what threw me were the production values, really. I mean, it was fascinating to see something that I'd normally think of as a soap opera, but with what looked like a huge budget for TV, and somebody really paying attention to detail with things like sets and costumes. It's too early for me to tell for sure, but I thought the acting and directing were really solid, too. I just...there is no Western parallel for that combination, I don't think. Maybe the old night-time soaps like Dynasty? Dunno, didn't watch 'em.

I also like what you say about the male sex objects. Hello, female gaze! That's sufficiently rare in TV to make me go "hmm" a lot.

Although it got pretty melodramatic, I didn't find it mockable. I felt like everyone involved knew what they were doing, and while some of the signs and cues were unfamiliar, it was all pretty easy for me to accept. Sometimes with historical things of any stripe, I feel really left out of the presumed universal ethical stance, but not here. Also, it was just a hell of a good time. (:

[oyceter]

Oh, interesting! I've found that (honking generalizations ahead!) a lot of the dramas I've been watching are much more... emotionally over-the-top or intense than what I find on American or British shows, both for melodrama and for comedy. I've found that in manga and anime as well, and I know humor in Taiwan always feels much less sarcastic. I suspect some of it is the lack of irony and the lack of emotional distance, though of course you have a ton of disaffected, ennui-filled manga and anime as well (and probably kdramas, but I just haven't watched them).

oracne said her friend said the historical sets and costumes are usually pretty accurate, but of course I have no idea.

I love the female gaze in the trendy dramas! I do suspect some of it is censorship laws or more shyness surrounding female nudity, but on the other hand, American TV gets around that pretty well with revealing outfits on women, and usually you don't see the male body sexualized in quite that way.

Also, it makes for lots of eye candy for me!

Now I really want to sic episode 2 on you: fighting in the rain! melodramatic flashbacks from childhood! UST!

[laurashapiro.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean about the dramas being more intense than western shows (and for sure anime seems that way to me, too, particularly in the realm of comedy), but the bit of Damo that I saw didn't seem over the top at all. Maybe I've just seen enough Chinese and Japanese cinema to recognize the acting style? Or maybe it's that the stakes seemed high enough to warrant the emotions: aieee, cutting off my arm! Yes, I'll be crying now, thank you!

Episode 2, eh? I might have to clear some time in my schedule...::eyes giant pile of TV::

[oyceter]

Yes! There are more episodes! I would gladly sic them on you! Though thankfully, it's only a 14-ep long series, though each episode is a full hour long.

*nods* That makes sense; that's generally how I feel about Damo. Though for the trendy dramas I've been watching, I totally get sucked in by the earnest-ness and the lack of irony.

[yhlee.livejournal.com]

So that's where that textbook went. Aha. :-) (You're welcome to hold on to it for a while. I have a couple of Korean textbooks in Korean that I can use--they're for children, but you have to sort of already have a basic handle on the language to be able to read them at all.)

The three-way division for most consonants is: "plain," "tensified" (fortis), and aspirated. They are technically unvoiced, although due to assimilation, unvoiced consonants will be be pronounced as voiced consonants in between vowels, etc. (I believe something similar happens with some Japanese words? kami vs. origami comes to mind, but I'm not a Japanese linguist. :-D)

I hear you on katakana su vs. Korean jieut (sp?) or j. This is one of the reason I hate katakana, because not only do bunches of them look similar to each other in unpredictable ways, but I get interference from the Korean alphabet.

Aigu is sort of a general all-purpose "Yikes" or "Oh dear" or--I mean, you can pretty much figure it out from context. I don't know offhand if there's an age/gender division as to who uses it a lot. If there is, maybe that explains why my mom would laugh at me for using it a lot when I was a kid. ^_^

Also, I feel you should stop apologizing for being interested in Korean and kdramas, but I'm biased. ;-)

Okay, I shut up now!

[oyceter]

Bwahaha, I kidnap all your Korean language books for even longer! Now I really want one of those kids books for practicing the alphabet, just because I like writing hangul so much. /script dork (I swear, I want to learn Thai and Arabic and Vietnamese and etc. just so I can write them)

Now I am really mad that iChat doesn't work! I read the textbook explanation of plain vs. tensified vs. aspirated, and it makes intellectual sense, but I still have a very hard time hearing it. The textbook's diagram of where the vowels lie in your mouth and the shape of your tongue and etc. helped a lot too, though obviously I can't say how much it helped because no one corrects my pronunciation.

Oh man, katakana knowledge is completely messing me up! I keep thinking "t/d" is "k/g" because it looks like "ko" backwards in katakana. Strangely, I don't get confused between "ro" in katakana and "m" in hangul. I need to learn how to say the letters too. I also keep getting "n" and "k" confused, even though I know it's the tongue position (omg the alphabet construction? SO AWESOME. It is so logical! Especially the compound vowels, even though I can't distinguish them!).

I am trying to figure out if "aigu" feels like "aiya" in Chinese; it does in some ways but doesn't in others, and of course I cannot even articulate why or how.

Also, I feel you should stop apologizing for being interested in Korean and kdramas, but I'm biased. ;-)

Hee! Ok! I am deathly afraid of appropriation (and also of boring people who have no idea what the heck this kdrama thing is), but it's so exciting! New areas of knowledge! New genres! So many references I want to figure out!

No need to shut up! I am so excited about all of this and I want to babble about it to everyone, except I think I come off as a crazy person.

Oh! I forgot to note in the cultural part, the other really nice thing about watching kdramas is having something to talk about with my sister and with people back home. It's not Taiwan pop culture, but in a way, it sort of is, and given that I spent 8 years in Taiwan and came out knowing almost nothing about Taiwan pop culture, it's nice to have this, even though it's not indigenous to Taiwan.

[yhlee.livejournal.com]

Bring all the Korean language books to Mariposa, and we can have a Korean session! If you want, that is. And I will kidnap some of the children's Korean alphabet books my mom sent for the lizard, and maybe you can borrow those and make some photocopies, or something.

And yes, the alphabet is so awesome. It has really spoiled me for learning other writing systems--I mean, Roman alphabet is easy because of long familiarity, and then Korean is logical, and everything else looks like a mess in comparison.

[oyceter]

Ooooo! That would rock so much! Feel free to laugh at my accent -- I had to look up "miana da" (sp. mya? ) because I kept hearing it as "byana da."

I feel like after learning Chinese, all alphabets and syllabaries make so much sense! Well, there is an alphabet for Chinese that's taught in Taiwan (bopomofo), so that's nice, but yeah. You only get bopomofo on the side of words in kids' books (sort of like furigana). I loved hiragana because there's none of the pronunciation craziness that there is in English, but hangul is even more methodical!

[jiawen]

There's some weirdness in Hiragana -- "ha" read as "wa", for example, and how people don't usually ever say "-desu" but "-des" instead. I've asked a few Japanese people what their feeling is for the difference between "-desu" and "-des", but my theory is still muddled.

[oyceter]

True, though definitely much less than there is in English. And the rule for "ha" as "wa" is fairly straightforward.

I think people do say "-desu," it's just that when you talk fast, the end "u" sound goes away. Sort of like how saying "could have" fast turns into "could of" turns into "coulda." I have heard people enunciate the final "su" for "desu," and it mostly seems to be in more formal situations. The end "-u" sound usually goes away for "-masu" as well, probably for the same reasons. I'm trying to think of words ending with "su," but can't. I suspect the "su" sounds more like "su" in the middle of words because you need the vowel to differentiate it from the next consonant sound.

[jiawen]

"it mostly seems to be in more formal situations"

It seems to me like it's whenever the situation is "marked" (as my Classical Chinese prof called it). Formal situations, but also (for example) when mom's pissed off and she's e-nun-ci-a-ting every syllable.

[kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com]

u and i are voiceless if they come between two voiceless consonants or have nothing at all following them.

So with desu/masu, the u is almost never pronounced, because it comes at the end of a sentence, but the u is pronounced, for example, if you put yo on the end.

And like, shita or kita or chikaku or something, where it's an i between two voiceless consonants, sounds like sh'ta, k'ta, ch'kak.

No feelings involved, it's perfectly logical rules. :D

[yhlee.livejournal.com]

miyanhada. :-) Very informal version, miyanhae. (he?)

[oyceter]

Oohhhh! Thank you!

I keep getting confused and thinking the -ada ending is past tense because of Japanese. And I kept hearing "miyanhae" as "byane" -_-;;.

Is the "hae" at the end a different conjugation of "ha-da"?

[yhlee.livejournal.com]

It's a different formality level, yeah. -hada is fairly formal (but not rigidly so; you wouldn't sound ridiculous saying it to people) and -hae is quite informal; you'd only say that to peers. I'm not even sure the textbook covers -hae because they probably want to keep well-meaning foreigners from getting beaten up for insolence. :-D

[oyceter]

Ah, gotcha. I am guessing you guess the spelling is "miyanhae" because of the "-ha" ending in the more formal version.

The textbook did cover formality just a bit in the intro! Enough to confirm that "-sumida/ka" is very deferential. But I suspect like most intro textbooks, casual speak will be introduced in intermediate levels for precisely the reason you mention ;).

[bravecows.livejournal.com]

omg, omg! Greengreengrassbytheriver! That was AWESOME. Oh gosh, when the little orphan was in that terrible car accident and there was blood everywhere -- ! I cried buckets. :O And the older orphan and the master-of-the-house were so-in-love and the older orphan used to lay her head on him like -- omg! It was beautiful. I envy you so much for getting to watch it again!

[oyceter]

OMG! OMG! YOU WATCHED IT TOO!

It was a car accident?! I don't remember! All I remember is her in the hospital and the grandfather (I think???) melting or something! And yes and the older orphan and I used to squeal whenever I saw the actor for the master-of-the-house appear in other dramas! OMG!

I am trying to decide if I should watch a new one or rewatch ones I've seen and only vaguely remember. But yes, I squealed when I saw the box! And everyone in their two braids!

[jiawen]

There was a short time while I was living in Taiwan that I wanted to try to pick up Korean. I bought a textbook (written for native speakers of Mandarin) and everything. It's interesting (for me) to see a textbook for speakers of one non-English language who want to learn another non-English language.

[oyceter]

Hee, I gave up on that after trying to learn Japanese from a Chinese textbook. Although I do find it immensely amusing that my mom's Japanese is in a Chinese accent.

[jiawen]

Hee hee! I love that kind of thing.

[jinian.livejournal.com]

Others are amused reading this as well. :)

Actually, I think it's really cool that you're picking up the language, and I love hearing about it. Somehow I'm the only (maybe just main?) one who does that with Japanese around here, so it's always me telling people nuance that the subtitles don't convey. More geekery: good.

[oyceter]

Oh good! I enjoy the language geekery but am not sure how many people do. I also geekily love trying to figure out the language from listening, even though a good textbook and teacher and class would of course be better! I also remember how fun it was learning things in Japanese class and then getting to hear it in anime ^_^.

PS. if you want any more kdramas...

[jinian.livejournal.com]

Hee. We're only up to episode 9! I will be sure to ask when we need more, though.

[oyceter]

Ok! I am (obviously) only too happy to pimp!

[shewhohashope.livejournal.com]

I am waiting patiently for the day that Somali and/or Arabic language soap operas take over the world and I can show off my linguistic skills.

Your mother is awesome! You need to post screencaps or something, so I can vicariously enjoy 90's cdramas.

I need to write up my drama thoughts and my end of year drama review, but I'm lazy and inefficient. I am incredibly forgiving of crazy set-ups all around: in books, tv, films, plays... In fact, I will look things up specifically if the set-up is outlandish and over the top. Extra points for being good, or so-bad-it's-good.

But it's possible that I'm more indulgent of melodrama in Bollywood films than anything else.

[shewhohashope.livejournal.com]

Case in point: I'm currently watching a JDrama which is built on the premise that the guy who played Shuji is a boxer who can't control his eating habits and keeps ending up in a higher weight class. And it's quite likely that he will hook up with the nun.

Or I would be watching it but it's really bad. Honey and Clover however, is delightful.

[oyceter]

Oh! Yay! You should totally watch the H&C anime too; it's so beautifully drawn.

[oyceter]

Yeeees! I keep meaning to ask: is there any way to get them if I don't speak the language? Or is it all still un-subtitled?

I should post screencaps and then everyone can see the wonderful costume porn!

I also encourage you to write up drama thoughts to feed my own addiction and make me feel less alone ;). I think I trained myself out of a love for melodrama and crazy set-ups when I was growing out of a lot of teenage books, but I find now that I still love it.

[shewhohashope.livejournal.com]

I've seen about one subtitled one in my entire life. But it's almost as much fun to me without because I can make stuff up, and I understand enough Arabic to make it interesting. Not that I'm really proficient with Arabic. In fact, my parents speak it instead of Somali or English when they don't want us to know what they're talking about. And you need specialist cable channels, like Abu Dhabi TV to get them at all, because google searches tend to turn up nothing (at least in english?) but it's always fun finding other girls (and boys) who know some of the big ones that aired during holidays from university/before we came to university, and laughing about the sassy dancers, emo boxers, mob bosses with hearts of gold and formerly-fat pop stars that populate the world of ME soaps.

I literally have about... 5 half written posts I need to finish, but I'll try and get on it.

[oyceter]

Hee! That's awesome! I wish I had the chance to see some... that sounds awesome.

[coraa.livejournal.com]

Your posts have inspired me to go looking for Coffee Prince with subtitles, so I can watch. Thank you!

[oyceter]

WHOO!!!!

[keilexandra]

Eee, I adore Huan Zhu Ge Ge! Absolutely positively adore. It's my favorite cdrama... well, second favorite, my favorite is a series about Empress Cixi in her youth that I saw in China a few years ago but stupidly didn't write down the name of. And my favorite kdrama would definitely be The Men of the Bathhouse Family/Zao Tang Jia De Nan Ren Men (dubbed in Chinese).

[oyceter]

Ooo, I don't know the latter two! I will have to try to find them! Also, I bet if I asked my mom about the Empress Cixi one she would be able to find it. When I sent her hunting for cdramas, I said I wanted stuff about women in the court, bwahaha, so I hope she will turn up even more!

[keilexandra]

If you can hunt down the name of the Empress Cixi one, I will be eternally grateful. At least with a name, I have some chance of finding a precious copy of my very own.

[oyceter]

Ok! Just asked my mom; she seems to have heard of it, so I am now seeing if she can find it. Apparently there's also one on Wu Zhe Tien, the empress in the Tang Dynasty!

[(Anonymous)]

I eagerly await your mother's omniscient drama-finding wisdom.

[raucousraven.livejournal.com]

Ohhh goodness, Huan Zhu GeGe, so much LOVE. And handkerchiefs! When I left Taipei I made my cousin narrate the last half of the show to me (these were the days before Youtube) just so it wouldn't gnaw away at me for the whole 13-hour flight home.

[oyceter]

Yes! I now suspect I didn't watch Huan Zhu Ge Ge and instead watched Da Yu Erh, an earlier show. But my mom says she will get both for me, bwahahahaha! Whoo!