Race and Pirates

[oyceter]

I ended up buying Beverly Tatum's "Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria?", despite already having borrowed it from the library because a) I wanted something to read in line while I waited to get a seat for Pirates of the Caribbean 2 and b) I want to financially support books like these and authors who tackle the subject of race.

I read a few chapters while standing in line, delighted by Tatum's definitions and her clear explanations and her compassion toward people of color and Whites alike.

Then I went in to watch Pirates.

And I watched, and I grew more and more uncomfortable. Jack Sparrow and crew run amok of cannibals. The cannibals, are, of course, Black. They have face paint and random piercings; they have made Jack Sparrow their king. He speaks to them in terms like, "Licka licka, savvy?" There are a few people of color in his pirate crew, but their speaking parts are small, and they all have very strong accents. Or they don't speak at all and lend their faces to the motley look of the crew. The main character of color is a Black woman, a voodoo witch or something, with eyeballs in jars, blackened teeth, and an accent so strong that I couldn't understand her half the time.

While I was noticing this and noticing the fact that there were no non-stereotyped portrayals of people of color, I was growing more and more uncomfortable with this awareness. I'm actually very ashamed to say this, but I kept thinking of things like, "Oh, is it really that bad?" and "It's just a movie" and "Really, it's about pirates, what can you expect?" and "It's all in good fun."

Except... it isn't.

And I can't get over the fact that even though I had been reading about race right before the movie, noticing the stereotypes and being critical of race in the movie made me incredibly uncomfortable and squirmy, so much so that I tried to rationalize it away. I spent the first half of the movie squirming and becoming more and more aware of the fact that my mind kept trying to slip away from the topic of race, kept trying to not confront it and come up with more and more reasons why it really wasn't that bad.

Except... it is that bad.

It is bad that I cannot think about race without this extreme uncomfortableness, that I cannot do it without attempting to rationalize and excuse, that I cannot do it even after reading about it and being fully committed to speaking out. And it is even worse, because I know if I had seen the movie without having read the Tatum beforehand, I would have noticed, but I would have let myself brush it off, let myself not post about it.

I didn't even post about this last night because it made me so uncomfortable.

Well, also, I wanted to make myself a "Not the magical minority fairy" icon.

But anyway. No more excuses from me, no rationalization. The movie is incredibly racist. I still had some fun watching it, but knowing that it was racist and knowing that most of the audience very likely wouldn't think so spoiled the majority of it for me.

I have difficulties just typing "The movie is incredibly racist," and I have to keep thinking about how I routinely notice the portrayal of women in nearly everything I read and watch (the movie is not as deeply sexist as it is racist; thankfully, Elizabeth gets to do stuff. But it is still very male). I have to keep thinking that for me, noticing sexism is ok, that pointing it out in my LJ is standard. And I have to keep thinking that I need to do the same about race, even though posting things like this frighten me because of the reaction to the Great Cultural Appropriation Debate of DOOM.

Part of me doesn't even want to keep talking about this because it's so uncomfortable, because it causes such defensiveness in other people, because I am tired of being told that I am wrong for seeing these things. And that's the very reason I am making myself post this, making myself confront the nidginess and the squirminess, the problems that I have in just acknowledging that something that I am enjoying is racist.

ETA: Freezing some threads in which further discussion seems to be rather pointless.

ETA2: I'm now screening all anonymous comments to this entry, not because I don't welcome them, but because I've been getting stupid spam comments everyday. If you aren't a spambot, you should make it through the screening! This is for spam only, not opinion-filtering.

Comments

[cija.livejournal.com]

The movie is incredibly racist

- I haven't see it yet, but that's the impression I got from the previews I saw, except nobody else who'd reviewed it had mentioned that so far (that I know of), so I thought maybe I was imagining it, or it was weird preview editing that made sense in context.

It is really fucked up that I so frequently see something -- like the previews for King Kong, or for PotC2 -- and think, That looks really racist, but it can't be or somebody else would have already said something, so I'd better be quiet.

-- Did they not even have Anamaria from the first movie? I thought she'd be a recurring character -- that's really disappointing if she's not.

[oyceter]

That looks really racist, but it can't be or somebody else would have already said something, so I'd better be quiet.

Yeah, I know! And yet...

So no, the racism isn't imaginary, it isn't weird preview editing, it doesn't make sense in context. It's just totally random.

And yeah, they don't even have Anamaria! She was cool, too.

[pinkdormouse.livejournal.com]

I hated the cannibal island part, and may have to rant about it in more detail later.

On the other hand I liked Tia Dalma, though not as much as I would have liked them bringing Anamaria back with her own ship to help the guys out. I didn't notice her accent that much, probably because Anamaria had an accent in the first film and I was thinking 'oh, Anamaria-replacement character'.

After ranting repeatedly about not enough black characters in the first film, I wasn't expecting many in this one, and actually thought I saw more than before. I may be wrong on that -- I'll have to rewatch both to compare.

But you're not at all wrong for noticing, and you should post. People need to have it pointed out to them.

[oyceter]

The cannibals were awful. And then I laughed at a lot of it. And then there were more cannibals, and it was awful. And then I had so much mental dissonance that I thought my head would explode.

I think Tia Dalma annoyed me because after I started noticing the portrayal of characters of color, the entire voodoo witch savage lives in swamp thing really irked me, especially for the one main character of color.

[rachelmanija.livejournal.com]

Argh. And I was looking forward to it, too.

I don't think it's wrong to point it out. I don't know if you saw King Kong, which has the Island of the Crazed Black Savages. I remember thinking, "Well, I guess they were in the original movie, and I don't think Peter Jackson is racist, but... Island of the Crazed Black Savages!"

[rilina.livejournal.com]

I do think I saw some commentary about this in reviews of King Kong. I haven't seen any commentary on race in reviews of Pirates of the Caribbean 2.

[harriet-spy.livejournal.com]

There are a few people of color in his pirate crew, but their speaking parts are small, and they all have very strong accents.

And, if you'll notice, they're all stuck in the *second* cage. You know, the one that cheats and tries to get ahead rather than wait for the guard to pass by, and then all those inside die? There's a nice closeup of all the colored faces grinning evilly just before they slip and die. After that, I *think* (I did only see it the once) the "main" crew of the Pearl is all white.

I know the movie is set in a freakshow, but walking out, all I could think was: What, they couldn't have *one character of color* dressed in normal clothing and speaking regular English and not eating people?

And it really, really bugs me that I have only seen two (not counting mine or that of the woman who went with me and was subject to my mutterings during the film) LJ reviews that even mention the subject amidst their torrents of enthusiasm. I mean, I doubt that the filmmakers had deliberately racist intentions, but a less critical mainstream appropriation of older racist tropes can hardly be spotted in this day and age.

[pinkdormouse.livejournal.com]

I should have said more about my issues with the cannibal island part of the story in my review, and maybe I'll post about that at some point. I may just bundle it up with the Multiculturalism Yay post I've been planning ever since a business contact pissed me off with her rant on 'immigrants' (ironically it dawned on me afterwards that I'm nth generation English, while I'm sure she's mentioned in the past that half her ancestors are Finnish -- may have to drop that into conversation if she does that to me again). It just feels odd me ranting about race so much, when the family members doing our genealogy research are yet to find any branches of the family tree not originating in Yorkshire or Norfolk.

[hysteriachan.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen the movie yet, and I don't really know if I will--for the most part, people I know have been enjoying it, but the first one didn't make much of an impression (and I see few enough movies that I try to make sure I'll be seeing things I really enjoy or learn something from). But from what I remember of the first one, I can't say I find this all that surprising. :/ It's amazing what earns general acceptance if it's done in the name of "fun that hurts no one", whether that subliminal claim is true or not.

I really appreciate that you do make posts like these, and that they remind me to pay more attention to the way the world actually is.

[oyceter]

The sad thing is, I would have liked it! Ok, it was overlong, but it was really funny. Except, you know, the whole racist bit, which basically left a bad taste in my mouth that never went away.

[tenar.livejournal.com]

i read this while looking at my friendsfriends list. thank you for writing it out. i saw the film last night and posted about it in my journal with the first paragraph being along the lines of, "let's point out the racism and cultural fetishization that was Bad okay moving on now RELEASE THE KRAKEN." sigh. today i can't brush it off so easily. i loved so much about the movie, it was a ton of fun, grand feeding ground for a lot of fic i'd love to read, but is it okay to intentionally ignore the racism in order to enjoy it? and even while the cannibal island stuff made me incredibly uncomfortable i still found myself laughing at some of the sight gags and jack's antics.

is it enough to just acknowledge it and move on? i don't know. i don't think it should be.

[ebonbird.livejournal.com]

is it enough to just acknowledge it and move on?

I don't think so. As often as I try to make it a point to do so, it sticks in my craw.

[littlebutfierce]

Oooh, thanks for this post. I'm so sad, because this was the big summer movie that I'd been looking forward to. I could totally see myself doing the same thing you were--trying to talk yourself out of seeing it as racist, etc.--too. I definitely still feel the pressure to not be the pain in the ass who always brings up race much more than I ever did for gender. I feel like, @ least among my friends & coworkers & other people I generally get thrown together w/, we're all mostly on the same page about feminism by now, but race is still the 800-pound elephant in the corner (or, er, whatever that cliche is).

[oyceter]

I hate being the pain in the ass who always brings up race, but I hate it even more when people confirm that bringing up race makes you seem like a pain in the ass. Ugh =(.

It is so, so, so hard to not talk myself out of it, and it's even harder knowing that the very few times I've brought it up has caused kerfuffle-ish activity.

[rilina.livejournal.com]

Tatum is awesome, right? I remember being impressed by how generous she could be; I certainly wasn't in that sort of mood when I was reading the book.

I was sort of looking forward to PotC2, even though I hadn't particularly loved the first one. Your description of how you tried to ignore the nidginess reminds me of how I felt during many points of the LOTR movies.

Thank you for posting this.

[oyceter]

I loved loved loved the Tatum! I think I may reread parts of it tonight to make myself feel better. She is so incredibly generous and compassionate to all people; I'm so in awe of that.

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

I was worried by the cannibal scene. I thought the woman character was simply Jack Sparrow's female counterpart.

[oyceter]

Hrm, yeah, I can see her as Jack's counterpart. I still wish they had more major characters be characters of color though =(. Obviously difficult because of the casting of the first movie, but then, I wish the casting of the first movie had had more characters of color too.

[j00j.livejournal.com]

Here via bonibaru

"I still had some fun watching it, but knowing that it was racist and knowing that most of the audience very likely wouldn't think so spoiled the majority of it for me."
Urrgh, I was cringing at several points (particularly the whole cannibal thing-- I was kind of shocked that the friend sitting next to me seemed to be entertained by it).

And man, where *was* Anamaria? I *liked* Anamaria!

[oyceter]

The thing was, I was entertained by it as well! Well, the Jack bouncing bits and definitely the hamster ball bits. But not the language bits or the bits in which it seemed to be "Haha, ignorant savages!"

[ellenore.livejournal.com]

I noticed it too- it's one of the many reasons why the movie was uncomfortable for me. Also, even though the introduction of the female pirate in the first movie was a bit cheesy, I'm sorry they got rid of her.

[oyceter]

Me too, she was cool! I wanted her to have her own ship and outdo Jack.

[serenada.livejournal.com]

The cannibals weren't black. They were a Carib analogue, of West Indian aboriginals who predated the slave trade. Which doesn't make it not racist, but I wanted the distinction to be made. I was taught in (Jamaican) history class that the Caribs spoke pidgin (like Jack was) to communicate with whites and did practise religious cannibalism, so again, not bothered by the instance so much as the lack of balance.

The very thick accent was Jamaican, and I was delighted by there being two different Jamaican accents in the movie (the dread who'd traded "spices" for delicious long pork being the other--whose brother spoke French, oddly). Being Jamaican myself, I had no problem with anything she said, and it hadn't occurred to me that she was any more impenetrable than the accented white characters. But there you go.

I know the magical Negro trope isn't set in stone, but she triggered none from me because she was not in the least noble. She was more a sexualised Ananse, tricksy and worldly wise, useful because of her knowledge of things dodgier than our heroes, not things purer. She wasn't simple, she was twisty and tangential and spoke less flowerily but possibly as misleadingly as Jack himself.

I'm not making a pitch for you to see the movie as not racist. I myself see it as painfully stereotypical. But the racial politics in the first movie bothered me more, because I grew up near the real Port Royal. By now, I'm over that.

[telophase.livejournal.com]

The cannibals weren't black. They were a Carib analogue, of West Indian aboriginals who predated the slave trade. Which doesn't make it not racist, but I wanted the distinction to be made.

Thank you - I was just coming in to make that point. :) (Of course, since I know more about Amazonian natives that West Indian, they seemed a lot more Generic Mythical South American to me, but the point still stands - very very sterotyped, but not black.)

[tanzy.livejournal.com]

Here via bonibaru as well. Let me just say thank you for speaking up, sometimes it becomes very difficult to speak out about issues of race/class/gender, especially when it comes to pop culture. I can't tell you how many times I've been talking about the representations in a TV show/movie/book and someone replies with, "but it's just fiction."

Honestly, I think people need some perspective. I don't think anyone these days would claim that Minstrel shows from the early part of last century weren't racist, although they were fiction. I also don't think it's impossible to still enjoy a movie will recognizing the problems in it, I feel the same way about Sin City and it's cacophony of gender issues.

A lot of times, I think the hardest part is overcoming the "does anyone besides me feel this way? or am I totally coming from left field?" feeling.

In short, mad props for posting this.

[telophase.livejournal.com]

I read Oyce's post before I saw the movie, so I was coming in with an "Uh-oh..." feeling, and was slightly relieved that it wasn't as bad as I'd feared. Had I not read this post first, I would still have been very uncomfortable with the cannibal tribe's portrayal, and not only on the basis that it was stereotyped, but also on the basis that ... it's been done. Over and over many times before in many movies and cartoons and OH DEAR GOD COULD WE PLEASE NOT DO THE CANNIBAL THING AGAIN.

[ponygirl2000.livejournal.com]

Much of the movie was shot on the island of Dominica where there is one of the largest remaining Carib populations. While a number of Caribs obviously appeared in the movie there were protests about the filming as well (my brother lived in Dominica for a while so he keeps up a bit with the news). There are some links about the protests here (http://cacreview.blogspot.com/2005/02/dominica-caribs-exoticized-as.html).

It certainly is problematic. The cannibal island is offensive, but I liked Tia Dalma, who despite the teeth and the standard witch's lair decor (has there ever been a magical lair without a jar of eyeballs?) was shown to be attractive to the two male leads. Having Anamaria back would have helped considerably, both in regards to race and gender. I agree with harriet_spy above about re-working old racist tropes, the filmmakers are taking bits and pieces from old '30s adventure films without thinking about their significance. I don't know, mainly while watching the movie I was thinking that it was too long, and I hesitate to apply the racist label without intent but I wonder now if that's part of the passivity you're talking about.

[oyceter]

Thanks for the link!

I'm glad so many people liked Tia Dalma! I do wish they'd kept Anamaria, so then Tia Dalma wouldn't be the One Sole Representative of a Character of Color.

I hesitate to apply the racist label without intent but I wonder now if that's part of the passivity you're talking about.

Yeah, I agree that they are taking old racist tropes, but I don't think they're even bothering to rework them. It felt a lot like they were just plunking them down piecemeal and not thinking about the implications at all.

I don't think it was intentional, but I'm still applying the racist label because of the passivity factor. So yeah, I do think it's part of the passivity thing. I think just the fact that they could plunk it down uncritically, without thinking about the implications, says something about how racism affects them. And because racism is an institution, being passive often means just perpetuating institutional racism, which makes Oyce cry ;).

Or, well, just post a whole lot.

[wemblee.livejournal.com]

I know it's wrong, but I tend to do a compartmentalization thing... like, I enjoyed POTC2 even though I knew its racial politics were fucked up, and I love Road to El Dorado (same writers, baby) even though that's offensive in all kinds of ways, and there are Wodehouse stories I don't wanna touch for similar reasons even though I love Jeeves & Wooster... I don't know if it's that acknowledging the fucked-up-edness somehow lets me permit myself to enjoy it, or if I just stow the fucked-up-edness somewhere else, or if I'm just resigned to the fact that in a racist society, lots of stories with other good qualities are often going to be racist (and I know that's definitely not a thing I should accept)... but somehow I manage to do a split-brain thing and still like this stuff. I'm not saying it's good -- it's probably bad! -- but... yeah.

Comment #2

[wemblee.livejournal.com]

And let me just amend my above comment from "probably bad" to "definitely bad."

[wemblee.livejournal.com]

One more thing -- so sorry to keep spamming your LJ -- did you recently review Beverly Tatum's book in your journal, or am I confusing you with someone else on my flist? I was searching through your memories (could've sworn I saw an entry about it), but I can't seem to find it.

[matt-ruff.livejournal.com]

Are you maybe thinking of this?

http://coffeeandink.livejournal.com/603074.html

[shati.livejournal.com]

Um. I bought Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria? today for an upcoming bus ride (and started it anyway, because hey, book!). And then I saw PoTC. Reading the first paragraph of this post was really weird.

I enjoyed the movie, for the most part. But, Jesus. Orcs and Haradrim all over again.

[oyceter]

Oh how cool!! What did you think?

[helens78]

The cannibals bugged me. But cannibals almost invariably bug me, because they're Savage Stereotype #1. It's like seeing Hollywood throw racial awareness in people's faces: "You wanna see black people in movies so bad? LOOK HERE'S SIXTY OF 'EM AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT SHOVE OFF."

Now, a lot of pirate books and movies do include cannibals. This is not new. And these movies are not trying to break new ground so much as retread every pirate movie or book ever, up to and including the Monkey Island games by LucasArts (which are so good, omg, and I wish more people were familiar with them; Tia Dalma was SO the voodoo priestess and Will Turner IS Guybrush Threepwood, only slighty less attractive, more's the pity). Oops, tangent.

The cannibal sequence wasn't exactly surprising -- but it was one of the aspects of the godawful long 2h40 that I really wish they'd left out. I think the only cannibal sequence in a pirate movie I've ever really liked was the Pig Cannibals of Muppet Treasure Island, which sidesteps the issue of race altogether (well, until someone draws a racial metaphor between pigs, rats, frogs, and all the other animals, and humans, anyway).

[ebonbird.livejournal.com]

"You wanna see black people in movies so bad? LOOK HERE'S SIXTY OF 'EM AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT SHOVE OFF."

Exactly. That annoys me (at the very least). If I'm hungry, don't slap a piece of burger-shaped shit between two pieces of high quality bread and call it a meal.

[elfbystarlight.livejournal.com]

I kinda assumed that they were deliberately working on a period understanding of race. Am I giving them too much credit? Possibly. Certainly they're not trying to be strictly period, but nor are they deliberately modernising it most of the time. Given when it's set, is it appropriate to present it to suit modern sensibilities, or is it inappropriate *not* to make it socially responsible?

It gets on my nerves a bit when something set in a different time or place is deliberately modernised/westernised just to make it easier for the audience. It *was* a period when understandings of race were being radically reevaluated, and given that the main characters are of white European/British birth and are doing their duty by colonising/civilising the rest of the world, why shouldn't it reflect their understanding of their place in the world?

Does the fact that it's not strictly period-accurate excuse it from showing all that is unpleasant about the period? How about the fact that it's just for fun? Does it have a social responsibility to show how things were, or to show how they should be?

[harriet-spy.livejournal.com]

kinda assumed that they were deliberately working on a period understanding of race. Am I giving them too much credit? Possibly. Certainly they're not trying to be strictly period, but nor are they deliberately modernising it most of the time. Given when it's set, is it appropriate to present it to suit modern sensibilities, or is it inappropriate *not* to make it socially responsible?


There is a difference between *authorial* POV and *character* POV. Had the film had any of the lead white characters express racist opinions, that would have been realistic to the period, and as long as the film didn't seem to endorse those opinions, not really problematic.

But, in fact, no *character* says such things in the film, because *that* would make people uncomfortable. However, the film does seem to endorse, even if, I think, without really intending to, those racist stereotypes. That's where the problem lies. Just because you're making a movie about racist *people* doesn't mean you should make a movie which is itself racist. Or, at least, if you're going to do it, you can't put the responsibility off on the *characters* or the *period*.

[mneiai.livejournal.com]

When looking at a movie like this, where all of the "people of color" look stereotypical, I look at the other side: Are all the white people stereotypes, as well? And, especially in this sort of movie, there really wasn't a single case where I could go "no, that person isn't just a blatant stereotype."

Plus, there's the added fact that back in the seven/eighteenth centuries that most people would have accents. And among pirates it would make sense that most of the people of color were recent immigrants to the Americas or from a lower class setting originally.

I don't think this fic really does anyone a disservice, I don't even think that most people who watch it would notice--it's most significant as a popcorn movie, after all, not as a statement. A real reason you seemed to notice this, as you stated, was that you had recently read a book dealing with (I'm figuring) a very close subject.

Though, the cannibal island part was a bit much. Weren't most of them wiped out by Cortez and co, anyway? But it wasn't any more than any OTHER portrayal of a cannibal island in any other movie/book/tv show that's been put forth as less than scientifically factual.

...If any of that makes any sense.

[oyceter]

I'm not arguing that the other people weren't stereotypes or takes on stereotypes as well. But since racism still does affect people, stereotypes of blacks and other people of color are much, much more harmful than stereotypes of British naval officers or pirates, and stereotypes of people of color play into a long history in which arguments about a race being intrinsically more savage than another were used to support slavery and bigotry.

I think even though it is a popcorn movie, it's still significant because it's adding to the portrayal of people of color in popular culture. Because there aren't all that many people of color in popular culture, each portrayal of them carries more weight than portrayal of white characters. Also, I feel like more people should be noticing this, not just people who have been reading about it, and especially not just people to whom this is a close subject, largely because this is an issue that affects everyone, but it's an issue that many people have the privilege to ignore.

I'm not bothered by the fact that there were accents or people of color who were recent immigrants. I'm bothered by the fact that they were almost all minor, disposable characters, easy to kill off, and that almost all the viewpoint characters were white.

[lilacsigil.livejournal.com]

Hmm, maybe I'll be going to see Superman instead. I'll have my racial overtones up front and in the open, please!

Just a question: how do you read Jack Sparrow? He's another character (and actor) who's not entirely white - is he some kind of mystic interpreter between the two sides? Is he just his own side? Since seeing Jim Jarmusch's Dead Man, I've never quite been able to read a Johnny Depp character as white. It certainly made the "Willy Wonka isn't really based on Michael Jackson" line look a bit shaky.

[oyceter]

Superman has racial overtones too? Woe. (aside from the all-white cast, of course)

Um, I actually read Jack Sparrow as a take on stereotypically queer traits. I didn't actually know that Johnny Depp had Cherokee ancestry, so I was reading him largely as white, but I think reading him as an intermediary between two sides is very interesting.

[darkrosetiger.livejournal.com]

Here via metafandom.

I wasn't entirely comfortable with the cannibals, but at the same time, I'm not sure that I read it as racist. While the cannibals were played for laughs, so was everyone else in that scene. Jack, in particular, came off as looking like a complete idiot.

As far as Tia Dalma, someone else has already summed up my feelings. Had she been played for laughs, yes, she would have come across as a stereotype. But they didn't. She was a woman of power, and she was also playing her own game--she wasn't about to be the self-sacrificing Magical Negro. I found her fascinating, to the point where I'd love to read some fic backstory between her and Jack.

[lyore.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that pretty much summed up my feelings, too.

[acostilow.livejournal.com]

Let me preface this by saying I'm not trying to diminish your feelings. I'm part Hispanic, I understand.

But we're talking about a movie set in the 17th-18th century. Women and minorities were objectified, because that was how the world worked. Was it good? No. Was it right? No. Was the movie portraying it accurately? Well, yes. And to chastise the movie for actually doing something right seems somewhat disheartening. It's much like the Catholics chastising The Da Vinci Code.

Yes, the minority characters were, well, minor characters. But in that world, they would have been minor characters, easily dispensed of. And really, making a major character a character of color just to have a character of color? Tends to make a bad movie.

Am I saying that this is all well and good? No. I'm saying that you shouldn't blame a movie for historical accuracy, 'cuz Hollywood and accuracy? Never the twain shall meet and all that.

[oyceter]

On the other hand, I figure if it's a movie set in the 1700s starring Davy Jones and various squid-people, it isn't too much to ask for people of color in larger roles. YMMV.

I think it's fine to portray things historically, but I also think that it's possible to do that without making a racist movie. Unfortunately, I don't think PotC thinks about the tropes and the stereotypes it's using, and as such, it's portraying things historically (possibly, given that it's a pirate movie) but uncritically so. So, I'm not blaming the movie for historical accuracy, but for an uncritical acceptance and perpetuation of that history.

Also, the continued portrayal of minority characters as non-central to the story, despite its accuracy in history, makes it so that minorities are still on the sidelines without stories, still playing second fiddle to white stars, and that's sort of making the same type of history of exclusion. (Ok, it's late at night, and I'm not quite sure if all that made sense...)

I think making a major character a character of color doesn't have to make a bad movie; I think it just tends to because people tend to stereotype people of color. It's not having them as major characters that is bad, it's the fact that there are so few of them as characters that makes each one have so much cultural weight. Also, making nearly all characters white perpetuates the image that people of color are Other and are not central to popular culture, which I think is even more damaging.

[kumquatweekend.livejournal.com]

Thanks so much for posting this. I'm grateful to have this food for thought.

I saw the movie with my (black) roommate on opening night; we both enjoyed it thoroughly. Our post-movie discussion didn't even touch on racial stereotyping -- we were too far gone with the "Whee! Swordfights!" squee.

Now that I think about it, I was rationalizing away the whole Cannibal Island/treacherous black shipmates debacle while watching: Historical roles, parody of every culture portrayed, unabashedly silly movie, blah, blah, blah...

Thing is, I've become increasingly sensitive to institutionalized sexism in action movies recently. And I was thrilled, watching this movie, because PotC:DMC exhibits net zero sexism -- so little that it's practically historically incorrect.

So, my little brain was so thrilled with the two kick-ass, self-sufficient, wily leading ladies of this movie... that I just. Didn't. Want. To. See. The. Blatant. Institutionalized. Racism.

*headsmack*

[oyceter]

So, my little brain was so thrilled with the two kick-ass, self-sufficient, wily leading ladies of this movie... that I just. Didn't. Want. To. See. The. Blatant. Institutionalized. Racism.

Gah, I hate that so much! Or, you're so thrilled by intelligent portrayals of race and engagement with stereotypes or something, and then smack! The gender politics are horrible!

I feel like it shouldn't be so hard to get both in one thing, really.

I had such a hard time trying to watch myself rationalize things away! It seriously felt like trying to catch minnows or something; everytime I got something pinned down in my head, it'd slip away again with another excuse. So, so weird.

I'm really glad you found the post useful in some way!

Also...

[kumquatweekend.livejournal.com]

Have you seen Harold and Kumar Go to White Castle?

Because I seem to be having the exact same squirminess in regard to PotC:DMC, but in reverse:

Hilarious, well-paced film (as with PotC:DMC).

Funny-yet-effective treatment of racial issues (unlike PotC:DMC).

Constant use of offensive sexual stereotypes (unlike PotC:DMC).

I ended up enjoying the film anyway, partially because I'm so goddamned used to the offensive stereotypes that I can, when need be it's convenient, overlook them (as with PotC:DMC).

Re: Also...

[oyceter]

I haven't, though I've heard it's really funny!

Alas about the sexual stereotypes though, argh.