Race and Pirates

[oyceter]

I ended up buying Beverly Tatum's "Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria?", despite already having borrowed it from the library because a) I wanted something to read in line while I waited to get a seat for Pirates of the Caribbean 2 and b) I want to financially support books like these and authors who tackle the subject of race.

I read a few chapters while standing in line, delighted by Tatum's definitions and her clear explanations and her compassion toward people of color and Whites alike.

Then I went in to watch Pirates.

And I watched, and I grew more and more uncomfortable. Jack Sparrow and crew run amok of cannibals. The cannibals, are, of course, Black. They have face paint and random piercings; they have made Jack Sparrow their king. He speaks to them in terms like, "Licka licka, savvy?" There are a few people of color in his pirate crew, but their speaking parts are small, and they all have very strong accents. Or they don't speak at all and lend their faces to the motley look of the crew. The main character of color is a Black woman, a voodoo witch or something, with eyeballs in jars, blackened teeth, and an accent so strong that I couldn't understand her half the time.

While I was noticing this and noticing the fact that there were no non-stereotyped portrayals of people of color, I was growing more and more uncomfortable with this awareness. I'm actually very ashamed to say this, but I kept thinking of things like, "Oh, is it really that bad?" and "It's just a movie" and "Really, it's about pirates, what can you expect?" and "It's all in good fun."

Except... it isn't.

And I can't get over the fact that even though I had been reading about race right before the movie, noticing the stereotypes and being critical of race in the movie made me incredibly uncomfortable and squirmy, so much so that I tried to rationalize it away. I spent the first half of the movie squirming and becoming more and more aware of the fact that my mind kept trying to slip away from the topic of race, kept trying to not confront it and come up with more and more reasons why it really wasn't that bad.

Except... it is that bad.

It is bad that I cannot think about race without this extreme uncomfortableness, that I cannot do it without attempting to rationalize and excuse, that I cannot do it even after reading about it and being fully committed to speaking out. And it is even worse, because I know if I had seen the movie without having read the Tatum beforehand, I would have noticed, but I would have let myself brush it off, let myself not post about it.

I didn't even post about this last night because it made me so uncomfortable.

Well, also, I wanted to make myself a "Not the magical minority fairy" icon.

But anyway. No more excuses from me, no rationalization. The movie is incredibly racist. I still had some fun watching it, but knowing that it was racist and knowing that most of the audience very likely wouldn't think so spoiled the majority of it for me.

I have difficulties just typing "The movie is incredibly racist," and I have to keep thinking about how I routinely notice the portrayal of women in nearly everything I read and watch (the movie is not as deeply sexist as it is racist; thankfully, Elizabeth gets to do stuff. But it is still very male). I have to keep thinking that for me, noticing sexism is ok, that pointing it out in my LJ is standard. And I have to keep thinking that I need to do the same about race, even though posting things like this frighten me because of the reaction to the Great Cultural Appropriation Debate of DOOM.

Part of me doesn't even want to keep talking about this because it's so uncomfortable, because it causes such defensiveness in other people, because I am tired of being told that I am wrong for seeing these things. And that's the very reason I am making myself post this, making myself confront the nidginess and the squirminess, the problems that I have in just acknowledging that something that I am enjoying is racist.

ETA: Freezing some threads in which further discussion seems to be rather pointless.

ETA2: I'm now screening all anonymous comments to this entry, not because I don't welcome them, but because I've been getting stupid spam comments everyday. If you aren't a spambot, you should make it through the screening! This is for spam only, not opinion-filtering.

Comments

[livinglaurel.livejournal.com]

This is a really interesting post -- I'm glad you made it, and glad you're getting some good responses to it. I have seen zero posts about this topic wrt the movie on my flist, altho I don't plan to see the movie and so don't follow discussion of it that closely. I didn't know about the protests against Disney, either, which are also v interesting. So good on ya mate for speaking up and outlining your objections, even tho you were uncomfortable about doing so.

I wanted to make myself a "Not the magical minority fairy" icon.

You SO should.

[oyceter]

Icon! Muhahaha!

Thank you, and I'm really glad that people are finding it interesting, and I am learning lots more about the protests and the Santeria and Caribbean people and etc., which is very cool.

[amonitrate.livejournal.com]

here from metafandom.

just wanted to say that I had the same reaction to the film. I didn't think the racism was even subtle. And it was towards all non-white characters - cannibal islanders, the Indian (?) pirates who race Will up the cliff... geez.

It disappointed me, 'cause I don't remember that element as part of the first film.

[oyceter]

There was the point raised that Johnny Depp can be read as non-white, though even if that's the case, I think one can argue that there's colorism at work, which is again a remnant of racism. Blech.

And yeah, I don't remember it from the first film. But then, it may have been because there weren't many minorities at all? Someday, there will be many more movies with minorities that also aren't racist!

[parallactic.livejournal.com]

Here via metafandom.

While I was noticing this and noticing the fact that there were no non-stereotyped portrayals of people of color, I was growing more and more uncomfortable with this awareness. I'm actually very ashamed to say this, but I kept thinking of things like, "Oh, is it really that bad?" and "It's just a movie" and "Really, it's about pirates, what can you expect?" and "It's all in good fun."

I haven't watched the movie, but I just wanted to say that this segment resonated with me on a lot of levels. This reminded me of my reaction to Joss Whedon's works, and to an extent Veronica Mars. You wouldn't believe how much time I tried to spend rationalizing away Firefly/Serenity's racial politics, simply because I liked it that much, and Whedon got so much else right, and I liked the characters even as I found them problematic.

The thing that bothers me is that I should know better, or think I should. It's almost like the inherent artifice in storytelling short circuits something in me, makes it easier to rationalize away the problems. To a certain extent it also feels illogical: I'll suspend disbelief for pirates, ninjas, magic, faster than light drive, questionable physics, but not for cannibals, and the misrepresentation of whole groups of people, and etc. But then again, why should I have to suspend disbelief for racial or misogynistic stereotypes?

So thanks for writing and posting this. It's given me things to think about. Since I see you've got a lot of commenters, let me just say that there's no real need to respond to mine.

[oyceter]

I totally did the same thing with Firefly's racial politics, until yhlee posted about it and I couldn't rationalize any more.

I wish it weren't so hard to find good storytelling that wasn't racist or sexist and had lots of good roles for people of color and women (and women of color, obviously)! I have this weird sliding scale for sexist and/or racist storytelling; sometimes I like it despite noticing the worrisome aspects about race and/or gender, sometimes I chuck stuff against a wall.

And I want to reply! Comments to the effect that people have been thinking about these things because of my post are incredibly encouraging and heartening!

[annathepiper]

Hi there, I came over from pinkdormouse's journal.

I just wanted to thank you for posting this, because as a white chick, I particularly felt the impact of this bit of what you said:

"And that's the very reason I am making myself post this, making myself confront the nidginess and the squirminess, the problems that I have in just acknowledging that something that I am enjoying is racist."

'Cause yeah, I pretty much did enjoy the movie--but when I stand back and think about the bits with the cannibals and the bits with sticking all the dark-skinned crewmembers in the other gerbil ball... yeah, I cringe. And I feel like although it may make me really uncomfortable to think about it, it's very, very important that I do so and give it acknowledgement. It ain't much, but it's a start that has to happen.

So thanks. I'll be linking to this post from my own journal.

[oyceter]

Hi! I'm glad you found it useful ^_^. And hey, small steps and starts are important.

[sxeraven.livejournal.com]

the problems that I have in just acknowledging that something that I am enjoying is racist.

Ok. You know... great post, nice points, and all very articulate. Until you're going on and on and on about how uncomfortable you are about this, about why you're making this post... are you trying to convince yourself that you SHOULD be bothered? Becuase that's how it's sounding.

Being concerned about racism and not wanting to partake in it or be a part of it is good. Being aware of it in your surroundings? Also good. But this post? Is beyond just... awareness. Its to the point where you really just sound whiny and OMG this movie is a TERRIBLE THING because in the grand world scheme of things it might make white people want to enslave black people again!!!

And seriously?

No. 1. It's a MOVIE.

No. 2. It is set in a time of pirates, of 18th/19th century England. We're not even talking United States here. We're talking England. The Islands they were referring to where the cannibals were localed, if I'm remembering correctly, are a place where people of colour live. People in islands and sunny locales tanned because of the sun, and it's called evolution. So my apologies if you think that portraying Island persons who happen to be cannibals as black (which would be geographically correct) is racist. I don't see it that way.

No. 3. You are so up at arms about this, that you're picking at straws. There is such a thing as being too gung-ho... I mean... it's like some of the Jewish people thinking that all white people are neo nazi supremecists because EVERYTHING in some way comes back to anti-semitism. It doesn't. If you look at things enough, you can twist everything into how you want it to be seen. Congratulations, that's what you're doing here. The world is not all about you. The world is not out to kill you. The world is not out to hurt you or make other peoeple hate you. Hollywood is not out to make people prejudiced against you. Please stop being paranoid.

[commodorified.livejournal.com]

Yanno, I should probably leave this for oyceter to deal with... eh, fuckit, why should she have to do all the work? She's got a huge pile of INTERESTING comments to answer.

You DO realise that you have a) created a completely innaccurate paraphrase of the original post, b) had some sort of rather messy pitched battle with your merry troupe of straw men, c) killed them all and d) dumped the corpses, dressed in tattered irrelevant statements of the obvious results into a the conversation as if they constituted an argument against the actual original post?

And if you don't realize this, why don't you?

[delux-vivens.livejournal.com]

it might make white people want to enslave black people again!!!

Yes, because that's what all conversations about race and racism boil down to. Thanks for pointing that out!

Anyway. About those pesky tanned black cannibals, I would strongly suggest you read this: http://www.indiancountry.com/content.cfm?id=1096410746, if you want to be just a wee bit more informed.

[livinglaurel.livejournal.com]

You know --

The Islands they were referring to where the cannibals were localed

no, fuckit, I'm not arguing with a post that doesn't make sense.

I'll just say it's really rude to come onto oyceter's LJ and in response to a thoughtful, considerated (and coherent) post, flail around with the !!!! and call her whiny and paranoid. She went to a movie, she had a reaction to it, she wrote about it in her LJ. If you don't like the post, you don't have to read it.

[rachelmanija.livejournal.com]

There is such a thing as being too gung-ho... I mean... it's like some of the Jewish people thinking that all white people are neo nazi supremecists because EVERYTHING in some way comes back to anti-semitism.

Yes, funny how anti-Semitic remarks like yours make Jews see anti-Semitism.

[trinker.livejournal.com]

Congratulations, that's what you're doing here. The world is not all about you. The world is not out to kill you. The world is not out to hurt you or make other peoeple hate you. Hollywood is not out to make people prejudiced against you. Please stop being paranoid.

Y'know, that's *exactly* what the problem is with racism. It's not *personal*, it's about this category that one can't change.

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

I've just seen it and am considering it on my LJ.

[oyceter]

Thanks for the FYI!

[delux-vivens.livejournal.com]

you know when i saw this movie it was with two friends, one who has studied Ifa (Yoruba religion) and one who has a family lineage of vodou practitioners. We laughed during the funny parts and were entertained by the action parts and clutched each other in horror at the magical negress and cannibals and more magical negress. *Lots* of horror.

This really isnt any different to me from any other movie experience with disturbing racial subtext, and i think its the same for a lot of other poc and always has been-- whats different is that a lot of people who havent really ever thought about are now actually hearing about it and it's bothersome to them. *shrug* To me, its typical DuBoisian double consciousness-- and that's certainly not a novelty or going away anytime soon.

Somewhere in the deadbro memories i think there's a link to an article by a british black man about how he felt about POC and imagery in the LOTR movies-- his article, as well as the mass fanboy hysteria that responded to it- is pretty interesting. You can like something and still think about it critically, altho that seems to be a sacriligious sentiment.

[oyceter]

Yeah... I'm just embarrassed and ashamed that I never really posted all that much about racism prior to this, particularly racism that didn't involve Asians. Yay Asian privilege? This is, of course, coupled with fears that ever since the cultural appropriation debate of DOOM, I'm now going to just be Angry Asian Chick in some people's minds, so I have to be extra careful picking and choosing and wording posts on race, etc. etc. etc.

But I figure that's not a new thing for anyone, really, it's just me who's finally figuring it out.

Ahhh, the joys of looking stupid on LJ while figuring things out.

Thanks for the tip on POC and imagery in the LotR movies, I'll look that up.

(also, your icon rocks)

[livinglaurel.livejournal.com]

AWESOME icon there.

[nenena.livejournal.com]

(yet another jenny-come-lately via metafandom)

I just want to thank you for this thoughtful post, and for your thoughtful replies to all of the comments. I remember being inwardly horrified at how I saw race portrayed in the Lord of the Rings movies, particularly Return of the King, but I was afraid to say anything about it because I remember the laughing and dismissive reactions I got when I said the same about The Lion King back at the tender age of thirteen. (I finally did post something on my old blog that had a readership of three people, and got a "word" from one of them, so that was encouraging.) When I saw King Kong, I kept my mouth shut. When I saw PoC II, part of me thought, "Why even bother pointing it out?" After a while there gets to be an air of inevitability about it. And the one time that I tried to call out something (non-movie related) as "racist" in my livejournal, I was shot down by over one hundred comments. So I didn't say or write anything about race in PoC.

Now, reading this post, I wish that I had.

Thank you for having the courage to speak out and the eloquence to do it so well.

(Also, I would like to give a drive-by but wholehearted endoresement to anything by Beverley Tatum.)

[delux-vivens.livejournal.com]

re king kong, you might want to read this: http://angryblackbitch.blogspot.com/2005/12/king-kong.html

[oyceter]

Tatum is awesome!

And I'm really, really glad that this post could help in any way; I didn't want to post at first because I remember the kerfuffle that resulted from the cultural appropriation debate and I remember people in college making fun of the petitions against Abercrombie and Fitch when they had that "Two Wongs Make a White" shirt.

I didn't speak up back then because I didn't know the words, because there was so much talk about reverse racism. So the very least I can do is say something now, especially when there are so many other people out there who have been talking about this so eloquently for so long.

[emma-in-oz.livejournal.com]

Yes, it is incredibly racist.

The bit that got me the most wasn't that the cannibal POC were a stereotype because, OK, you could argue that the pirates are a stereotype. It was the way they all rushed around together, doing exactly the same thing, in a great, formless mob. All they had to do was split into two groups and they could have stopped the escape but they didn't because that would have meant imagining that they had individual personalities and the ability to form plans rather than to just mill about as one big group.

[lavendertook.livejournal.com]

What gets me is that they could individualize the members of the barnacled and tentacled folk, but imagine individuality for POC--"OMG, that's Madness!!!" It's amazing how many perfectly good synapses in white writers'/producers' minds go *thud .......* due to white privilege.

Thanks for posting

[eileenlufkin.livejournal.com]

And thanks for being so polite in your replies, even in the face of provocation.

Re: Thanks for posting

[oyceter]

Thanks for reading!

[wynterhawk.livejournal.com]

Hi! I just found your post here and I have to agree with every bit of what you said. Having enjoyed the first Pirates, I was ready to enjoy this one, but all I did was squirm and grimace through the majority of it. I even tossed annoyed glances in the direction of this man who dissolved into giggles all throughout the cannibal scenes and the ball scenes. All I could do was roll my eyes and hope that it got better. Unfortunately it didn't. Disney won't be getting my money for the third installment, that's for sure.

[oyceter]

Yeeaaaah... I think I will be skipping the third installment as well.