Tang Dynasty info needed!

[oyceter]

PSA: telophase is looking for info on the An Lu Shan rebellion and the fall of the High Tang, probably with an emphasis on how the political events of the time affected daily life, clothing details, military details and etc.

I am now so sad that a) I do not have university library, b) I am not in my beloved EAS library from college, and c) people do not know about Yang Guifei. I shouldn't feel such, given that I also didn't know much about it before majoring in EAS, but it just reminds me how little of my history is common knowledge in the States and worldwide. And I'm not talking about details; I'm talking about one of the most famous stories in Chinese history (am I exaggerating? I think it's pretty famous, right?) that has been retold for centuries and reinvoked time and time again (and that is a lot of time, given that it took place in 755 CE).

Also... it's the Tang Dynasty! I am too starry-eyed about it because of the enthusiasm of one of my Chinese lit. professors (who, btw, was AWESOME), but I have the same passion for it that people do for the Renaissance. It was just this amazing period and there were many cultures (at least for the time) mixing in Chang'an (modern-day Xi'an and the capital prior to the An Lu Shan rebellion) and there was the poetry and the flourishing of art and... wah. I really need to find a good book or five on Tang Dynasty and finally get around to reading the one I have on female Tang poets.

It's not just Chinese history -- there are references to Yang Guifei and the fall of the High Tang scattered throughout Japanese literature, though I am much less knowledgeable about Korean influences, particularly since Japan took a ton of influences from the Tang Dynasty (Kyoto is basically Chang'an reproduced, the kimono is based off Tang clothing, etc.).

It's not telophase or her commenters' faults at all and I do not mean this as a way to passive-aggressively call them out -- this is just a symptom of a larger problem that is everywhere, and if you couldn't tell from my completely dorktastic spamming of Telophase, I am very excited someone is asking about it!

And again, it's not really a surprise, given how I know how history and literature is edited down in the Western world (am not exonerating the non-Western world, btw, but given the global dominance of Western culture, non-Western ones have to have a better baseline knowledge of Western history) and given how stupid I am about Black, Latino, and Native history and culture and literature just in the US alone, and that doesn't even begin to encompass how ignorant I am about African history, South American history, non-Chinese-or-Japanese Asian history, and all of the above cultures and literature and...

I wish I could download knowledge into my brain.

Comments

[oyceter]

Hrm, I am guessing Judge Dee must be Bao Qin Tien. I may avoid that novel; the summary on Amazon looks rather sketchy (I hate the standard portrayal of Chinese women in power as power-mad, wily seductresses bent on ruining the kingdom) and may check on the story of Yang Guifei first -- I am a little hesitant to read anything that may either over-romanticize her (Hi Bai Juyi!) or blame her for the fall of the High Tang period (Hi bulk of Chinese pop culture!).

[the_rck]

My recollection of The Court of the Lion is that Yang Guifei is a major character but isn't exactly who the book is about. It's one of those big books with dozens of important characters.

'Judge Dee' is based, roughly, on this fellow, but Western views of the character are heavily influenced by the novels of Roger van Gulik. van Gulik started by translating a Chinese novel about Judge Dee in the late 40s and then wrote a bunch of other stories about the fictionalized character. My guess is that Cooney and Altieri used 'Dee' in their novel rather than 'Ti' (as they refer to him in their afterword) in hopes of drawing in fans of the van Gulik mysteries.

[oyceter]

Oops, now I feel dumb. Bao Qin Tien's from another time period, duh.

[the_rck]

I had to look them both up to be sure that you weren't right. I'm never sure how many differences can be ascribed to the various romanization systems. Pinyin spellings scare me because I know I'm likely to mangle them, but that's the system I prefer to see used (not that I can actually *tell* which system's been used with any reliability. I don't know Mandarin).

I was happy to find both books because I love historical fiction that's set some place other than western Europe or North America and that doesn't involve characters from western Europe or North America. (Well, I used to love such books. Back before anxiety issues made those heavy novels too hard for me to read.)

[oyceter]

Yeah... OMG Chinese romanization systems give me a headache. And then you get into simplified vs. traditional characters and it's a whole new thing. I prefer pinyin as well because once you figure out the strange characters (x = sh, q = ch, etc.) it's pretty easy to figure out. Also, less apostrophes = faster typing!

I ditto you on love for non-Western historical fiction! I want to find more, but I'm also scared to look sometimes because so much of what I have found and read is sporky.

[the_rck]

I've seen more books with non-Western characters set in parts of Asia than I have books set in Africa (without Western characters) or the Pre-Columbian Americas (and I don't think I've *ever* seen anything set in pre-Colonial Australia).

Maybe this is a topic to post on-- Something asking people what books they've seen that fit the criteria. In English (either written in English originally or translated well). With all point of view characters neither western European nor North American. Well written. Well researched (or possibly well researched since not all readers will be sure one way or the other. I know I'm often not). Not involving cultural, military, trade, etc. conflicts and interactions with western Europe or the United States.

That last one would be a squishy criterion because there might be books that are very good and meet all of the other criteria. I just tend to include it in my searches because I don't want to be utterly depressed or enraged.

[oyceter]

You should ask! I would definitely lurk around in the comments.

[the_rck]

I've posted the request here: http://therck.livejournal.com/169323.html

I'm quite sure that I've forgotten to specify some important criterion and will look stupid, but that's probably the anxiety talking. I'm not sure how it is that I can give a speech or act in a play without freaking out but do freak out about posting on LJ. Maybe it's the quasi-permanence of the publicly written word...

[oyceter]

I am sitting and trying to think of suggestions but my brain has futzed out on me! I hope you get some good ones though!