Willingham, Bill - Fables: Homelands and Arabian Nights (and Days)

[oyceter]

For the record, Arabian Nights (and Days) is why I am not going to be reading Fables anymore.

I've previously had issues with politics and gender in Fables, and this one is the last straw. That said, it's one freaking huge straw.

Orientalist stereotypes for the win! (also, spoilers)

I was already very wary when they mentioned the introduction of the Arabian Fables as refugees. On the one hand, yay, non-white people and non-European cultures! On the other hand, wow, does Willingham screw it up.

First of all, the Arabian Fables all speak horrible English. I will say that Willingham at least shows them speaking fluent Arabic. On the other hand, I don't remember if Baba Yaga had English problems when she crossed over to Fabletown, and Red Riding Hood certainly isn't, so why the Arabian Fables? coffeeandink also pointed out that it's not like Arabian Nights hasn't been translated into English; Willingham certianly could have given them some fluency using that logic. Furthermore, they are made fun of for speaking unintelligible English.

(Yes, I know, they mock Beauty for not understanding that an Arabian Fable is saying that he will kill everyone or something, but NOT THE SAME.)

I was minorly annoyed by the fact that the Arabian Fables speak Arabic like this: "Sirrah, this kind of behavior from the infidels is not to be tolerated! Give me the word, master, and I will avenge this insult to you. I can slit a thousand throats this night without disturbing anyone's sleep" (emphasis in the original).

This wouldn't have annoyed me quite as much had the big issue been: OMG! The Arabian Fables keep slaves!

Even the completely amoral, good-for-nothing Prince Charming is shown balking at this, even though in the past, Fabletown has had a sheriff that used to be a murderer. I am not saying murder is worse than slavery or that slavery should ever be tolerated; I am saying that Willingham is using this as a lazy shorthand to create conflict between the backwards Arabian Fables and the enlightened Western Fables.

At least there is Sinbad, the ruler of the Arabian Fables, who is shown as reasonable and good.

Of course, he's shown as reasonable and good because he listens to the Western Fables and advocates westernization while his second-in-command (drawn with a hooked nose, pointy beard and curly mustache in the worst of caricatures) betrays him to gather power and criticizes Sinbad for being too western. (in picture: Yusuf on left, Sinbad on right)

Then there's the charming and pleasant plot in which our noble and brave Fables discover that the Arabian Fables have brought djinn with them, which, Willingham and the characters tell us, is the Fable equivalent of a nuclear weapon. I kid you not. All of the Arabian Fables are detained and jailed, and not as a commentary on anti-Muslim hysteria post-9/11. Instead, it's shown as a regrettable but understable act, given the information they have, and in no way shows any indication that this may potentially be problematic given the political climate today. After being imprisoned for no reason he can discern, Sinbad says that he brought it in to keep it from the Adversary, trusting in his people to not touch it.

Cole replies: "I'm afraid that's not good enough, Sinbad." (Cole has been shown to be the rational intermediary throughout the volume and looks somewhat sorrowful but also stern.)

This is somewhat mitigated by the fact that Sinbad shows them that they still have access to Baghdad in the Homelands and therefore have power there, but the very next page has Beauty attempting to understand another Arabian Fable (in full turban and regalia, of course) who is telling her that he is the master of poisons and strangling.

To top it all off, the back cover copy jokingly notes: "But the arrival in Fabletown of a delegation from the Arabian Homelands shows just how tricky this kind of coalition-building can be -- especially when one side is concealing Weapons of Magical Destruction!"

The only reason why I finished reading that arc was so I could blog about it knowing that Willingham didn't suddenly retract something. After that, I threw the book in disgust at the floor. Quite honestly, if it hadn't been a library book, I probably would have thrown it against the wall repeatedly, as just once doesn't even begin to encompass how disgusted I am with it.

ETA: all anonymous comments on this post now screened, thanks to the appearance of trolls!

Comments

[miffyvampirebat.livejournal.com]

FFS! It's a /graphic novel/ about /fables/.

It's not supposed to be realistic, let alone some sort of racist propaganda machine or a true to life portrayal saying "yes, this is what all arabic people are like and they all control magical djin!". There's no mention of the fact that they do actually get along and work together at the end of the thing!

As for those people who are not bothering to read it simply because of this article, why don't you actually read it for yourself and... you know... form your own opinion?

[oyceter]

It's not supposed to be realistic, let alone some sort of racist propaganda machine or a true to life portrayal saying "yes, this is what all arabic people are like and they all control magical djin!".

Yes, but that still doesn't stop stereotypes from having real consequences. And things can be racist propaganda without people intending for them to be.

[miffyvampirebat.livejournal.com]

I agree with you that stereotypes can form real consequences but propaganda cannot be propaganda without some sort of drive behind it. Propaganda in its nature, as it is defined, is a deliberate attempt to change someone's views and perceptions to what the author desires. I don't think Bill Willingham is trying to corrupt the minds of comic readers into thinking that all arabic people have harems and magic carpets... I'd like to consider most people intelligent enough to believe that isn't true on their own.

At the end of the day, as with any text, you can read into it what you will and it's open to your own interpretations, but I honestly do not believe that someone has specifically decided to force readers to believe in stereotypes through Fables. It's something of an expectation that fictional Viziers are out to stab people in the back and make schemes but I'm not about to start proclaiming that all people of that station throughout history were exactly like that.

[oyceter]

Well, it's nice that you have such a belief, but from what I've seen from media stereotypes, I think it's very possible for people to believe stupid stereotypes just from what they see on tv/read in books/etc.

Also, when nearly all portrayals of Arabs in media (TV, books and movies) in the US right now show them as evil or as terrorists or as sheltered women to be saved, I think that's a problem. I also think being able to ignore the effects of stereotypes on race relations is a privilege that not all of us have.

[(Anonymous)]

This does seem an attempt to create controversy where none exists...Now, yes, The Arabs do own slaves and have harems, but a fact of the matter is, Arab nobles of the timeframe in which 1001 Arabian Nights was written, did own slaves and did have concubines (Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent had an enormous harem and a massive slave quarters, for instance). I'll remind you, Fabletown is set in New York, a northern state and would have through the Civil War, through the massive debates over slavery early on in America...that, in the centuries since, they've become extremely anti-slavery is simply logical. It's not a political commentary by Willingham, it's within the confines of the story and nothing else-else we could label George RR Martin a pro-death penalty authoritarian for Eddard Stark's speech on the execution of oathbreakers.

Yufus is simply a stereotypical 'evil vizier,' not a stereotypical Arab. If Sinbad looks handsome, noble, brave and strong? Because in the stories, Sinbad IS noble, brave, handsome and strong. On the Yusuf manner...consider Jafar, Zervan and even Terry Pratchett has the 'Evil vizier' character.

PS: One criticism I have to address: Baba Yaga is a powerful sorceress and had prepared herself to infiltrate Fabletown, of COURSE she speaks English. The Arabian Fables are clearly isolationist and thus, retained their own language/culture. If Fables is racist in this matter, so are 300, King Kong, Pirates of the Caribbean and goodness knows what else

[oyceter]

Please sign your name.

Amazingly, quite a few anti-racists think 300, King Kong, and Pirates are racist. I've posted on Pirates before, as have many other people, and ditto with the other two movies.

You're not going to convince me that stereotypes of Arabs don't exist, that such stereotypes are harmless or that this volume isn't offensive with these arguments, particularly when you're not looking at stereotypes of Arabs as a whole across media.

[lightysnake.livejournal.com]

Signed in, then.

Of course 'stereotypes' exist. However, applying for racism in those areas is plain ridiculous. Again: If showing people from a certain timeframe as they actually acted/were written? Then Terry Pratchett, George RR Martin and Neil Gaiman are equally guilty of stereotyping...maybe some misogny, authoritarianism...

Should negative stereotypes in areas instantly lead to the entire genre being shushed over? Should 24 be badgered for daring to show terrorists who do happen to be Muslim? Should Braveheart be considered horrific for how it presents the English?
OR, can we look at the story in the context of just that? A story, without delving for racist meanings that many have not seen? This isn't a Terry Goodkind novel where bad political/racist theories are intended-if you saw a stereotype, it was because Yusuf is meant to be stereotypical: He's an evil Vizier, no more, no less
Hell, how about those who use Tolkien's novels as allegories for racism? The 'African' and 'Middle Easterners' are the evil ones, while the proud white horsemasters of the West are the heroes-and anyone who's read on Tolkien personally know how absurd ascribing him those views would be

If people think those movies are racists, then they're digging for racism where absolutely none exists. If you look for stereotypes, you'll find them. Anywhere

[oyceter]

A story, without delving for racist meanings that many have not seen?

And this is being able to read with white privilege.

I also think Tolkein's novels are racist. And people who try to deny racism will do so no matter how blatant things are.

As mentioned before, I am not interested in continuing this conversation and will be banning if this this keeps going.

[miffyvampirebat.livejournal.com]

I'm not ignoring the effects of stereotypes, I'm perfectly aware of them. As for portrayals specifically in the US, I admit that of that I'm fairly unaware as I'm English and while we have our fair amount of them, being unpolitically correct in the media is fairly dangerous at the best of times, therefore I suppose I'm sheltered from the US media.

My point is that no one claims that this is what arabic people are like at this point in time. The Arabian Fables are that, Arabian Fables from their own separate world that has been closed off. These characters are portrayals of their ficitional counterparts from Arabian tales. Just as the Fables homeland is fairly medieval, so the Arabian one is the image of most of the tales that we are familiar with. The whole of this storyline hinges on the idea of small number of meddling characters who do not want to make a treaty with people with different ways than their own and I know that Western cultures are more guilty of this than most.

If you want to say that this is causing racial division and schemas in readers of graphic novels because of its depictions then I think any pagans or witches should start protesting about Baba Yaga and Frau Totenkinder.

Just as not all young, mayoral candidates are womanising princes from another reality neither are all arabic people magic carpet riding Viziers.

[oyceter]

If you want to say that this is causing racial division and schemas in readers of graphic novels because of its depictions then I think any pagans or witches should start protesting about Baba Yaga and Frau Totenkinder.

They are perfectly free to do so.

Just as not all young, mayoral candidates are womanising princes from another reality neither are all arabic people magic carpet riding Viziers.

Ah yes, but quite frequently, there are many white people in media who aren't womanising princes, whereas there are very few Arabic people in media who aren't evil, terrorists, or backwards.

Also, given the anti-Muslim atmosphere in the UK, I don't think this is a stereotype limited to the US.

I'm really not interested in continuing this argument; you're not convincing me and honestly, I've heard all these arguments before.

[lightysnake.livejournal.com]

And anyone with a working brain will instantly point out to them how ridiculous that sort of comparison is

Personally, I'd have to wonder if you've heard these arguments before, why something so clearly logical is failing to get through to you. Apparently, you've hit a point of 'anti-racism' where anything with even a PERCEPTION of political incorrectness.

So, thank you, I'll be enjoying a fine story without racism. Your loss.

[oyceter]

Banned!

[miffyvampirebat.livejournal.com]

If you're looking for stereotypes then you will find them. That's all that I'm saying.

I'm not really trying to convice you, I just think it's a shame that you've decided to take it in the way that you have. I suppose I really enjoy the series and although it's not as excellent as it was at the beginning I don't agree that it's some kind of anti-islamist propaganda. But then that's my opinion alone.

I didn't really think of it as an argument and more as a debate, but thanks for responding and not deleting me off ^_^

[oyceter]

If you'd really like to discuss more, there are a lot of excellent resources on racism here.

I think that stereotypes exist without people looking for them, like the one about Chinese people eating dogs, which I've seen in at least three separate places in the last few months, and that calling attention to the use of stereotypes means a wider awareness of the harm stereotypes can have, along with being a simple critique of bad writing.

[oyceter]

I just think it's a shame that you've decided to take it in the way that you have

Also, FYI, if you want something to come off as a debate instead of an argument and to not piss off someone you're responding to, I'd recommend not beginning your comment with "FFS" or telling people to read it and form their own opinion.

[miffyvampirebat.livejournal.com]

True, I think I was feeling the wrath of the fangirl welling inside of me as far as the "FFS" is concerned so I do apologise about that ^_^

As for asking people to read the novel and form their own opinion, I stand by that in reference to those who said they have decided not to read it and therefore have not seen the volume in question. You have valid points, but unless they have read the volume for themselves they are only reading your interpretation of it.

Anyway, thank you for the link in the other reply, I'll go and take a look.

Clarification?

[stormdrains.livejournal.com]

Brief point:

Arabic is a language, whereas Arabs are a people (er, or many people, har har!).