Angel 5x08 Destiny again

[oyceter]

Squeee!!!

Ok. Am done now.

But seriously, I kept thinking Eve was getting naked and she was going to be Lilah underneath somehow! Then I thought she was going to crawl into bed with Lilah (Lilith and Eve sleeping together has a good sort of resonance for me). Someone (shadowkat67?) had a good point about Lindsey always being associated with the Shanshu prophecy, and now that's he's turned up, it's also finally become the center attention for the first time in forever.

I so thought Spike was going to turn human. I still think he might (see my post-Chosen post).

So awesome being a long-time viewer! Many past episode references -- the entire thing with Buffy, Spike coming up from behind Angel to whack him with a giant metal rod, of course all the flashback eps, the tension in S2 in the triangle of Angel-Spike-Dru, the Yoda thing. Also, Gunn going mad and strangling Eve and Fred clocking him with a fire extinguisher: Billy. I kind of wish Wes had been there to see what he would have done. I didn't catch that Sirk was the guy Lilah picked as Wes' guide in Home, but another cool little detail. More prophecy mistranslation, more Angel distrusting prophecy and destiny. Spike, the grand screwer-upper of destiny. The "toner" in blood reminded me of Conversations with Dead People.

I shivered when each vamp pulled the most painful thing he could say about Buffy out. Somehow, I think Buffy would kick the crap out of both of them for that.

I really liked the Gunn and Spike vibe. Wonder if all that unseen bonding was in the bathroom?

Eve needs to die. Preferrably as a sacrifice to the higher powers who are hopefully manipulating her and Lindsey. If not, she needs to stop expositioning. Generally, I save yelling at the TV screen to Alias, but the boy's roommate must have thought I was nuts, because every two seconds: "Shut UP, Eve!"

I also liked really small things, like how Dru was wearing the same lacy gloves she wore in LMPTM.

I wonder if Angel is thinking in the back of his head that Wes mistranslated the Shanshu prophecy and somehow betrayed him again without meaning to. Guh.

I need to get Eve/Lilah out of my head. Really.

Apparently, this post isn't more coherent by much at all!

Comments

Hah!

[anneth.livejournal.com]

Eve needs to die. Preferrably as a sacrifice to the higher powers who are hopefully manipulating her and Lindsey. If not, she needs to stop expositioning. Generally, I save yelling at the TV screen to Alias, but the boy's roommate must have thought I was nuts, because every two seconds: "Shut UP, Eve!"

I so agree! Spaceman and I always end up talking through her lines because we're so annoyed by her. Or, really, I'm annoyed by her and like to complain about her when she's on-screen. Plus, I'm still trying to get past my conviction that the role was written for and should have been played by SR, a conviction that means I end up pretending all of Eve's scenes were actually played by SR, which ends up confusing me when I think back on the episodes.

Sigh.

Anyway, I'll see your squee! and raise you an eeee! Lindsey!

Re: Hah!

[angeyja.livejournal.com]

Anyway, I'll see your squee! and raise you an eeee!

Lindsey! Whoohoo!

Re: Hah!

[oyceter]

Tattooed Lindsey!!

It had to be Eve

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

I don't like Eve either. "All dressed up in big sister's clothes"--she ain't Lilah.

But when she crawled in bed with Lindsey, I knew that was something Lilah would never, ever do (even if she was trying to manipulate Lindsey, she wouldn't do it, because she'd know Lindsey would see right through her).

It will be fun seeing what Eve and Lindsey have brewing together, and how together they really are on this (versus having their own agendas each isn't telling the other).

Re: It had to be Eve

[oyceter]

Oh yeah... that last scene made Eve a thousand times more interesting.

Now I want to know if Lilah is backstage somewhere plotting against Lindsey and Eve as well.

Re: It had to be Eve

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

You weren't the only one who (a) thought Eve would turn into Lilah during that scene in the apt where she's taking off her clothes (it reminded me of that scene in Cocoon 2 where the boat captain watches alien girl take off her clothes, then her skin) or (b) get into bed with Lilah (although I thought that was just my dirty mind).

It's the whole set up of... who is she talking to? What is it about Eve that we don't know?

Thank God they did something interesting with her.

Re: It had to be Eve

[oyceter]

I think subconsciously it makes sense though -- they've got Eve saying a lot of lines that sound more like Lilah, they've got the attempted sexual chemistry with Angel, and then, in this episode, she gets nearly strangled by Gunn (as opposed to Lilah and Angel)... so some weird parallelism was going on in my head or something, which naturally lead to Eve having sex with Lilah ;). Plus, the cool not-quite-twin Mulholland Dr. thing too.

Thank god she's doing something instead of just being exposition girl. Because with that name, it just would have been silly to leave her in the background.

Wow this episode makes me happy.

Re: Hah!

[oyceter]

I know! Lindsey! Hee. I wonder if all the new fans are confused as hell.

And grrrrr! Eve might not have been so grating about the exposition if she would just stop being so cute about it... ugh, puts my teeth on the edge just thinking about it.

[onetwomany.livejournal.com]

kept thinking Eve was getting naked and she was going to be Lilah underneath somehow!

Haha. I though exactly the same thing!

I also thought Spike was gonna go human. The Mountain Dew was a big surprise. Hee. Drink of pure evil.

[oyceter]

I was so excited when Spike did his "Actually, a bit of both" thing and downed the cup because I thought they would shanshu him, because that was the only thing I could think of that would be big enough to warrant the massive online reaction.

I giggled so hard about the Mountain Dew.

Yep agree on much of this...

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Also taking credit on being the one who noted Lindsey was
at the center of the Shanshu Prophecy - as far back as Blind Date S1.

I so thought Spike was going to turn human. I still think he might (see my post-Chosen post).

I do too. Although I was skeptical about it happening in this episode - too early.

Why? Because turning Spike human is the worste thing they could do to both Angel and Spike. We all know why it'd be the worste thing they could do to Angel. But why Spike? Simple - Spike deep down fears the human part of himself, the pathetic William. He thinks he wants it. But at the same time - it's what he thrilled in moving away from.
That's why I think they'll do it. The trick in writing a good horror yarn is to always to come up with the worste thing you can do to a character (besides killing them) and then actually do it.


Eve needs to die. Preferrably as a sacrifice to the higher powers who are hopefully manipulating her and Lindsey. If not, she needs to stop expositioning. Generally, I save yelling at the TV screen to Alias, but the boy's roommate must have thought I was nuts, because every two seconds: "Shut UP, Eve!"

Me too. This actress is just annoying. Oh well - she's only signed for six episodes, hopefully she'll be gone soon.

Re: Yep agree on much of this...

[oyceter]

I think so too. Plus, Angel suffers. Angel always suffers. I can't see him getting a shanshu unless it's at the very end of the series. It's been picked up for S6 right? Please? ;) And not only is a shanshu one of the scariest things they could do for Spike, it's also one of the most painful things they could do to Angel. Personally, I also think it fits in with Spike's MO, being Mr. Anti-Destiny and all (imho). Spike messes up the order of things while Angel is generally thick inside the order of things (Home vs. Chosen).

I think it's kind of funny how the shanshu has got both fan factions debating on who's worthier for a shanshu, because honestly, I don't care. I want the plot line that causes the most damage to both characters, being the slight sadist that I am ;). Plus, good watching.

She's only signed on for six episodes?! Whoo!

Re: Yep agree on much of this...

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Regarding a Season 6? Too early to tell. But the outlook is good, since WB really doesn't have much at the moment. And ATS has held it's own in the age demographic on a tough night.

And not only is a shanshu one of the scariest things they could do for Spike, it's also one of the most painful things they could do to Angel. Personally, I also think it fits in with Spike's MO, being Mr. Anti-Destiny and all (imho). Spike messes up the order of things while Angel is generally thick inside the order of things (Home vs. Chosen).

Exactly. The reason I think spike will turn human is all of the above - 1) chaotic element (which we saw in Destiny)
2) it's the worste and most painful thing they could do to Spike and 3) it's the worste and most painful thing they could do to Angel.

The other reason is Spike's journey is about dealing with William - the bloody awful poet inside, or the demon with the man, while Angel's journey in a way is dealing with Angelus, the demon inside. They are mirror opposites of each other. It's great!

I think it's kind of funny how the shanshu has got both fan factions debating on who's worthier for a shanshu, because honestly, I don't care. I want the plot line that causes the most damage to both characters, being the slight sadist that I am ;). Plus, good watching.

Completely agree. Feel the same way.

Re: Yep agree on much of this...

[oyceter]

Ooo, I like the William vs. Spike and Angelus vs. Angel idea. More dark mirrors (and mirrors of the mirrors? huh)

[hermionesviolin.livejournal.com]

re: Lilah/Eve, Lilith/Eve

1) Ooh, now i wanna write Lilith/Eve.
2) Have you read this (http://archive.shriftweb.org/archive/20/identityin.html)?

Also, good call with the CwDP echo, and now i am off to check out shadowkat67 and the Shanshu because i am a bad worker like that.

[oyceter]

Yeah! I think it's the only Eve story I've encountered so far. Very creepy, and it probably planted the idea in my head.

[hermionesviolin.livejournal.com]

Yeah, most people just want Eve to go away, so she's not exactly racking up the fics. I kinda wanna write an Eve fic (working in the Angelverse as we knew it before "Destiny" -- nice of them to give us rerun season to come up with 18 million possible theories which will of course all be proven false), partly because i'm feeling intrigued now (though doing a beginning of time Lilith/Eve fic is a completely different and in fact more appealing idea) and partly because i like a challenge. That last statement is a bit ironic since i have been avoiding my schoolwork all week :)

[oyceter]

Well, she is pretty annoying right now =(. It's kind of sad because there is such giant potential (that I think they're putting in now with Destiny, woo!) and I want to see if there is a relationship between Eve and Lilith/Lilah, etc. etc. And oooo fic! Hee. Schoolwork is somehow never quite as fun as fandom, strangly ;).