Sayers, Dorothy - Strong Poison

[oyceter]

(cross-posted to inklings_lj)

I feel rather blasphemous, but I didn't like it all that much. I can sort of see why people would like the series -- I liked what little I saw of Lord Peter Wimsey and Harriet Vane, but for some reason, I was expecting more character interaction and got a rather mundane mystery instead.

Of course, I say this because I'm not as big of a fan of the mystery genre as a whole, and so I don't care all that much to find out who did it and how. I think because of this, I had a very difficult time following the plot.

The few other mysteries I've read have been a handful of Mary Higgins Clark one summer (not that interesting), an Agatha Christie (scared me to death), and eight of the Stephanie Plum books, which I thought were hilarious but which got a little old after reading one every day. When I binge, I binge.

So I'm sort of wondering -- is this book rather characteristic of the Wimsey books? I do mean to read the rest of them anyway, just because everyone loves Gaudy Night so very much, but I sort of want to know what I'm getting into. I think I was expecting something with a little more character development. I loved the scenes with Peter (Lord Peter? Wimsey? How does one refer to him?) and Harriet, and particularly his nonchalant-seeming proposals and Harriet's hesitant, sad answers. Wimsey was actually a surprise for me -- I've almost been expecting someone like Lymond. I think part of it is because both authors are named Dorothy and another part is because both men have this sort of aura around them when readers talk about them. But he seemed rather sweet and rambled on a lot, and there was this small, quiet moment at the end of a chapter which totally stole my heart.

And I think I would have liked Harriet had I more time to get to know her, or so to speak. I found it rather strange that Dunnett didn't spend very much time with her, considering that she was the prime suspect and was probably going through some mental trauma, to say the least. I wanted to see more of her and Wimsey interacting. I did very much like the bits with Miss Climpson and her very enthusiastic letters, along with her struggles with her conscience.

It's a bit silly of me to resent the fact that the mystery plot takes over the book, given that it is a mystery, but I just wanted more characters to spend time with.

I watched The Princess Bride again a few days ago, and so the main reaction to how the murderer did it was, "Oo, he put iocane powder in both the glasses!" which made me snicker, but probably wasn't supposed to. And my favorite little moment is that one where Wimsey very quietly mentions suicide to himself, and then very quietly thinks that it's not time yet. It was such a contrast to his rather verbose, stumbling personality. So far, I like Peter Wimsey very much, as opposed to Lymond, who one sort of admires from a distance and knows better than to befriend.

Links:
- inklings_lj's review roundup

Comments

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

Strong Poison is the least witty of the set. It pretty much assumes that you know who Wimsey is, know that he's generally a frivolous man (at least outwardly), and know how astonished he is by the whole coup-de-foudre he experiences with Harriet.

Read Murder Must Advertise. It's essentially stand-alone. If you don't like it, you don't like Sayers. (Which is fine by me. I like Sayers for the banter, not for the characterization.) If you do like it, then read the Harriet books in sequence; the next is Have His Carcase.

Sayers may age out of all readability. I love her beyond reason; I encountered her books at a formative age, and all my life I've wanted to be Peter Wimsey. (Sorry, not Harriet; Peter.)

[oyceter]

Ahh yes, I was getting a sense that I was missing pieces of the puzzle. I feel that if I had been reading the series prior to this, I would have been more startled and touched when he proposes to Harriet.

And thanks for the suggestion -- I picked up Clouds of Witness, Lord Peter and Unnatural Death at a library sale a while ago and I have no idea as to what order I should read them. Maybe I'll do the one-off and then see if I want to go on (but I really want to read Gaudy Night!).

[oracne.livejournal.com]

I'd save LORD PETER--a lot of the short stories are very mechanical, and the famous one, "Talboys," should be saved until you've been through all the Harriet books.

I like CLOUDS OF WITNESS a lot, because it has Peter's family in it.

I think you might like the rest of the Harriet books--they grow on you--despite HAVE HIS CARCASE having a lot of neepy mystery-plot stuff, it also has small perfect character moments.

[mamculuna.livejournal.com]

It's been awhile for me on all of them, so I can't comment in detail. But I will say that what kept me in the series was character, not plot--though any mystery reader is a bit of a strumpet for plot. Lord Peter was the successor to Sherlock Holmes as the intellectual taking on the detective's work, but also as the reserved academic slowly and reluctantly succumbing to the female of his own type. It takes many books for it to happen, so you should read them in order if possible, and you really need a taste for the nostalgia of the time, too.

Another problem with all classics is how we've been spoiled by the imitations, too. I love PD James and Elizabeth George and Ruth Rendell, but they've all done similar things, following Sayers, and then they've been imitated. So you might well be bored.

[oyceter]

Oh, interesting. Well, the good thing is I haven't been spoiled by the imitations! I don't read much mystery at all or watch mystery movies or anything. Heh, I haven't even read Sherlock Holmes -_-;;.

[mamculuna.livejournal.com]

You read romances, though, right? Gaudy Night is pretty good from that point of view, and some of the ones after it. But that's a lot of reading if you're not liking it.

[oyceter]

Mmm romance ;). I think I may try one or two more of the pre-GN ones and then if I don't like them, skip straight on to GN.

[rachelmanija.livejournal.com]

Gaudy Night is a wonderful romance about two people who get along beautifully, care about each other deeply, challenge each other in a healthy way, support each other's career choices, and work well side by side, but are separated by a believable conflict of honor and a well-motivated psychological hang-up. No wonder I like it so much.

[oyceter]

I can't wait to get to it! I actually bought a copy from the bookstore, since it sounded like something I would probably want to own, and it's just sitting there and waiting for me to read other Wimsey books first.

[atpolittlebit.livejournal.com]

For me, both Strong Poison and Have His Carcase were necessary introductions to the character of Harriet Vane, but the real stories are in Gaudy Night and Busman's Honeymoon. The last two are more character-centric with a mystery happening than a mystery with some character development. Also, in the Harriet and Peter line, the short story "Talboys"—set later than the novels—is hysterical (in my humble opinion).

[oyceter]

Gotcha. I keep feeling like I should read the rest of the books before I get to Gaudy Night and Busman's Honeymoon because those are the high points and I want enough background to appreciate them properly ;). And I can see glimmers of what those books could be in the Harriet-Peter dialogue in Strong Poison, but it's rather buried in the plot of the book.

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

IMO the character development begins in Strong Poison but doesn't come to a climax until Gaudy Night, which is mostly a character interaction novel -- to me even more so that Busman's Honeymoon, which is billed as a love story with detective interruptions. Before that Wimsey, while interesting, is a fairly static series detective who is largely unchanged by the events of the book -- though more about his feelings, past, etc. is revealed in pieces scattered through them. After he meets Harriet he loses that impervious shell and starts to really feel and change, but it's a slow build.

I really adore Sayers, but if you're there more for the characters than the mystery, which I am, you do sort of have to approach the earlier books as a bit of a meta mystery, finding the clues to who they are in dropped references and small interactions, and putting the pieces together yourself.

[oyceter]

Meta mystery, hee! I suspect that's what I'm going to end up doing. That's strangely how I watch a lot of TV shows as well. I get in because of the fanfic or because of an interesting later episode I've seen, and then I go back and watch all the earlier ones. It feels like a big puzzle, trying to piece together how so-and-so got from point A to point C, where I first met them.

[gwynnega]

I started with Gaudy Night and Busman's Honeymoon, then went back to the earlier two Wimsey/Vane novels and liked them a lot too - but as others have said, GN and BH are much more focused on juicy character development and interaction. There's some great stuff in Have His Carcase too, though...

[oyceter]

Hrm, ok. I think I may try a few more non-Wimsey/Vane ones and see how I like those, and then either read the rest or skip on to Gaudy Night.

[luned.livejournal.com]

If you don't like mysteries, you won't get much mileage out of the Wimsey series. The only one you might enjoy would be, in fact, Gaudy Night (which is the only one which doesn't include a murder) but you'd miss most of the emotional impact of the Vane/Wimsey relationship.

[oyceter]

I don't dislike mysteries, but they don't excite me either... they're sort of just the McGuffin that brings about character interaction, or funniness, or something. I think I'll try another book or so and see how it goes.

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

What Agatha Christie scared you?

[angeyja.livejournal.com]

*grin* that was my question too.

Oyce, I started Sayers backwards, and later.. read most of Christie before eighteen, and then started with _Gaudy Night_, and picked up the rest after.

[oyceter]

Hrm, ok. I seem to watch most things backwards, which is slightly disorienting, so for once I'm trying to read things in the right order ;). But I may skip around a bit, depending on my mood.

Backwards..

[angeyja.livejournal.com]

was not by intent.

Re: Backwards..

[oyceter]

Heh, how'd it happen?

I usually get sucked into TV series backwards because I catch a random episode on TV and then watch scattered ones (this is how I watched Buffy... very confusing!).

[oyceter]

And Then There Were None. I don't really remember most of it, but there was this one image of a guy hanging himself that scared me for some reason.

[minnow1212.livejournal.com]

What everyone else has said. Like jonquil, I recommend Murder Must Advertise as a standalone. Harriet isn't in it, but you get a sense of Peter.

The earliest Peter books are...good, but Peter is still a bit of a cipher. He grows throughout the series.

I read Gaudy Night first, before reading Strong Poison. Gaudy Night is from Harriet's POV, and you get a much better sense of her.

[oyceter]

Hrm, ok. To bring up Dunnett one more time, this feels a little like slogging through Game of Kings -- took me absolutely forever to read that, though by the end, it was totally worth it.

Piffiling with claret dresses

[fresne.livejournal.com]

It's a little difficult for me because I came to the series through the mini-series in the '80s. There was such lovely piffle and painful watering places.

I'd agree that Murder Must Advertise is a good place to decide if you'll like the series, because they are quite character driven books. From the moment that Peter has a nervous break down in one of the earlier mystery because of his experiences during "the War" to the the poetry in Busman's Honeymoon. The mystery bits, well, I tended to skim those parts.

Blah, blah, clues.

Ooh, piffle.

Re: Piffiling with claret dresses

[atpolittlebit.livejournal.com]

I think my two favorite stand-alones are Murder Must Advertise and The Nine Tailors. Both give an interesting look at Lord Peter himself, but do so in surroundings that are, to say the least, unexpected.

Re: Piffiling with claret dresses

[oyceter]

Thanks! Everyone's been mentioning Murder Must Advertise and someone else mentioned Nine Tailors as well... I think I shall make a library run this weekend.

Re: Piffiling with claret dresses

[oyceter]

Hee, another mystery-skimmer! I tend to think of the mystery bits as the MacGuffin that drives the character moments, unless, of course, it's a really, really cool mystery.

What mini-series? Is it on DVD?

Re: Piffiling with claret dresses

[fresne.livejournal.com]

Indeed it is. Ah, sigh. It was a wonderful feeling finally being able to get rid of my tapes from the 80s, which were getting a bit worn.

This particular series did Strong Poison, Have His Carcase and Gaudy Night. Sadly, they didn't get to do Busman's Honeymoon, which is really my favorite, what with the poetry moments.

But, excellent series. Some really quality banter.

Re: Piffiling with claret dresses

[oyceter]

Quality banter should always be cherished. Thanks for the FYI.

[rachelmanija.livejournal.com]

I think after reading Strong Poison you can skip Have His Carcase (Harriet and Peter continue to be friends and solve a mystery together; she still won't marry him) and go straight to Gaudy Night, which is beautifully written, emotionally real, and character-driven. After that you'll either eagerly rush to read Busman's Honeymoon... or not.

Murder Must Advertise is fun and funny but you'd enjoy it more if you were in a Stephanie Plum mood than looking for emotional depth.

Also, one no one's mentioned is The Nine Tailors. I've been saving it for a rainy day, but I believe it's more atmosphere and character-focused than some of the others.

[angeyja.livejournal.com]

I should have.. early morning rush to work.

[oyceter]

Fun and funny is good too. What did you think of Strong Poison, btw? Is it just one of the not-best books in the series, or do I lack context?

[rachelmanija.livejournal.com]

Well... I think it's mid-level in the series, but it's much more interesting if you're familiar with Lord Peter already. I really only re-read the character moments and interaction of Peter and Harriet and Miss Climpson, and skip the mystery bits entirely.

[oursin.livejournal.com]

The Unpleasantness at the Bellona Club foreshadows Strong Poison, brings in the effects of the War, shows Whimsey in bohemian circles, etc. Underestimated.

[oyceter]

Ooh, ok. Thanks.