IBARW: Random nidgy things that I've noticed in the past two weeks

[oyceter]

Someone on ap_racism commented to the effect: once you start noticing racism, it feels like it's everywhere, which may be why it seems like talking about racism causes racism.

So. Things that I've noticed or thought about in the past two weeks in real life:

Things that make me conscious of being Asian:

1. I've seen Snapple's "What is white tea commercial a few times, and it made me nidgy. Today, I stopped and thought, "Huh. There is a Chinese peasant in the fields picking tea leaves and explaining what white tea is to the white tourist/traveller." "Ok, nidgy," I thought. "Ok... his English is so bad that they subtitle it in the commercial. Ok... so why didn't they just have him speak Chinese and subtitle that?" *sigh*


2. Best Western's latest "I've been everywhere, yeah" commercial has a family with a white father and an Asian (?) mother. On one hand, yay! Asians in the media! On the other hand, nidgy realization that most white-Asian couples are white men and Asian women, coupled with the memory of people joking about Asian fetishes (I also participated in this, which I'm not proud of). I don't know if I would notice this negatively if I weren't so sensitive to the Asian-woman-white-man thing (my last boyfriend was white).

These next few questions are things that I think almost all the time. I don't always voice them, even to myself, but somewhere in the back of my head, they lurk...

Also,if you have asked me these questions, it's ok, it really is.

1. Do people underestimate me because I'm a young Asian woman?


2. Do people confuse me and two of my co-workers at work because we're all Asian? Or is it because we're rouching the same height with the same length hair? Usually, I just dismiss it and think that we are around the same height with similar coloring and heavy glasses. But it's still in the back of my head.


3. Did the people I got my rats from think it was weird that I was Asian? Am I out of place?


4. Do the people at the coffeeshop I go to for my knitting circle think it's weird that most of us are Asian? Does the non-Asian there feel weird for being non-Asian? Does anyone wonder if I ever feel weird about being the only Asian?


5. Are people asking me about Asia/China/Japan/etc. because I am Chinese? Or because I am an East Asian Studies major who studied Japanese in college?


6. Is it an innocent question when people tell me that my English is so good, knowing that I grew up in Taiwan (obviously, this is a valid question, but part of me always wonders)? Do I never get the "No, where are you really from?" question only because I immediately tell people I'm from Taiwan?


7. Why do half the pieces of mail I get spell my name wrong?


8. What do the mostly white neighbors think of me? Am I too loud? Am I not being nice enough when I see them? Will they think I am a Chinese person with no understanding of manners in America?

And now...

Please note, I am not noting my own racist responses so that people can reassure me. I'm doing it to be honest and to show that even though I can blog about racism here, it's very, very difficult for me to change my own mindset and reactions. I am not the poster child for anti-racism; I live and breathe the same racial smog that we all do. My id is angry at Asians who look bad or who assume I'm like them; at blacks and Latinos, who make me feel awkward and guilty;* at white people who make me feel out of place or make me feel even more Asian. My ego and superego realize that this is a reaction that really doesn't help anything.

* Also, I am rereading this after I type it, and I would like to note the language that I used. Of course, it's the Asians who look bad. Of course, the blacks and the Latinos are somehow making me feel guilty. *headdesk* Please witness, aversive racism at work!

And just seeing how I so easily slip back into blaming other people of color, how can I honestly blog against racism if I don't talk about my own?

Things that make me realize how easy it is to be racist:

1. A few days ago, a well-dressed black man on a bicycle yelled at a car that cut him off on the street, saying, "Fuck you, turn on your blinker ahead of time!" My first reaction was fear. My second was to check how he was dressed. My third was to notice my first two reactions, try to justify them to myself ("Anger is scary! People who swear scare me! His being black had nothing to do with it!"), then realize that yes, my instinctive reaction is a racist one, and I must remember to think to myself, "I totally yell stuff like that when I'm in the car, why shouldn't he? Why should it make me afraid? Why did I check to see how he was dressed?" I must remember that I cannot combat aversive racism unless I notice it in the first place.


2. At the library sale the other week, a white woman accused an Asian man of cheating (I couldn't quite figure out how, but it had to do with hiding books or something). I had to stop and wonder if it had to do with race, even though I knew nothing about the incident, particularly after I noticed all the librarians were white. When the man defended himself in badly accented and broken English, I hugged my books closer to my chest and wanted to disappear. I wondered if anyone else would think that I were a stingy Chinese person intent on getting the best deal even at library sales, and if anyone would start questioning how many books I had clutched to my chest. I was embarrassed by and angry at the man for making me look bad, and I tried to reassure myself by noting that there were many other Asians there, most of whom seemed well-behaved. (This also goes under the first part)


3. I get irritated when I talk to people with accents at work, and I wish they would speak better English. I remember jokes about all tech support jobs going to India. I try to remember how I feel when people make fun of my Chinese.


4. Casual comments about black people from friends, casual comments about Jews, casual comments about Hispanics. How easy it is to be silent to not argue with a friend or a co-worker.


5. Did I date a white guy because I subconsciously think they are sexier then Asian men?


6. I avoid eye contact with people of color on the street, and then I attempt to make eye contact and smile. I feel like they know I am racist, and considering that I instinctively avoid eye contact, they are right.

And because I know how frustrating it is to have a giant list of "Do not do this!" and how it leads to flailing and not knowing what to do, another list! Added caveat being, this is my own, personal list, and as such, it probably leaves off a number of things, because (as demonstrated above), I have giant, giant blind spots when it comes to race.

Things I try to do to not be racist:

1. Remember that being Asian means that I do not necessarily understand the experiences of other people of color, and as much as I can try and help and sympathize, it's not the same thing.


2. Remember that "I don't mind it when people do such-and-such" does not equate "He/she doesn't mind it when people do such-and-such."


3. Try not to talk over other POC talking about their experiences.


4. Non-British/Scottish/European/American/Australian accented-English only means one thing: someone is not that familiar with the language. I should know from my own, very limited, experience that halting words don't mean halting thoughts. I say all the "non-" bits above because I think those accents are usually perceived more favorably, or as less ignorant, than an Indian accent or a Chinese accent.


5. Asia does not equate China and Japan. Asia does not equate East Asia. Asia is very large and encompasses a great many countries and people and cultures and traditions, and I should know better than to define it soley by the two countries I am most familiar with.


6. Whenever someone white makes me feel awkward, try and remember the privileges that I get from being financially well-off and Asian (as opposed to black, Latino, or Native American). This doesn't mean that Asians aren't discriminated against; my admission of privilege does not take away oppression in another area. Conversely, when I feel awkward around other people of color, try and remember how I feel when people say random things about Asians. But also remember, my experiences of racism don't equate other people's experiences.

Do you have lists? What are they?

ETA: corrected typos

Comments

[littlebutfierce]

Asia does not equate China and Japan. Asia does not equate East Asia.

Oh, hallelujah! And not all Asians are fonts of knowledge about every other country in Asia.

Also, on a side note, I'm one of the founders of this group for queer Asians in NYC, & probably 95% of our group is East Asian (& 90% of that Chinese), & it really irks me to feel like I have to constantly remind folks that there are other parts of Asia that exist, & we should reach out to them (for a long time I was the only Filipino regular! In New York!). And when we plan events & things, we should not just base them on East Asian cultural traditions & calendars. Sigh. Yay for marginalization in an already marginalized population!!

One thing I noticed about myself was that moving from a school district that was majority-black (the school district I went to all my life & graduated from) & then going to a much whiter college in TX (Laura Bush's alma mater, regrettably) & then an even still-whiter college in England had a definite effect on my reactions to race. I remember one time after I'd moved back home after England & seeing someone black somewhere & sort of subconsciously thinking, "What are you doing here?" & being appalled @ thinking that. Because in the previous few years I'd gotten used to thinking somehow that black people were a rarity, an oddity... even though I spent 17 years of my life in a school district that was about 60% black.

I'm really glad I live in a super-diverse neighborhood now, but it makes me nervous to think about what would happen if I moved somewhere super white. Then again, if my reactions & expectations can change one way, they can be changed the other way, towards being less prejudiced too.

[oyceter]

Exactly!

Also, I've noticed that there are lots of East Asians and from what I've noticeed personally (aka, nothing of statistical significance), there aren't as many at my company. I used to go around saying "Asia" when I didn't really mean the entire continent, which was just wrong.

I think the neighborhood really does make a difference, though it's also easier to change once you're aware of influencing factors (ahhhh, yes... moving from New Jersey to California was no help to me at all until I figured stuff out on my own!).

[veejane.livejournal.com]

One of the very funny things about online communications is that I don't have any idea the race or ethnic origin of my correspondent unless that information is volunteered (or is obvious in syntax, which is rare). I was talking this over with vonnielake once: she was on my flist for probably a year before she mentioned that she is not a native English speaker.

There's that pleasant no-expectation blank I get, when corresponding with someone new. It's kind of funny, knowing (from past experience) that it's impossible to cast into that blank without cues. And yet, even when I've gotten a detailed description and history and have been talking to that correspondent for years, I meet her/him and my first thought is always: oh, for some reason I expected you to be my height.

[oyceter]

That is pretty cool! (oh boy, here I am, being a wet blanket) Except there are times when I find out someone isn't white, and I'm totally surprised, because I assumed they were. I mean, on one hand, very valid assumption, given that my corner of LJ fandom is nearly all white females. On the other hand, I hate realizing that my standard default for "no indicators of race" tends to be white =(. But that's me!

I still expect people to look like their icons!

[loligo.livejournal.com]

as less ignorant, than an Indian accent or a Chinese accent.

Once again I am reminded that the time and place in which I grew up must have been some sort of cultural backwater that shared almost nothing with the more populous coasts of the nation: where I came from, Indian, Chinese, and other Asian accents were perceived as fairly high-caste on the scale of foreign accents, because they belonged to doctors, scientists, and (honking big stereotype, here) very motivated college students. The idea of an Indian Mini-Mart manager was simply unheard of. I'm sure that, like me, most of my peers from high school "met" Apu on the Simpsons long before they met an actual Indian person working a service industry job. (Here's how ignorant I was: I didn't even realize he was a stereotype. I thought Apu was a bit of very creative casting on the part of the Simpsons writers.)

Try not to talk over other POC talking about their experiences.

Because of one of the posts of DOOM that sparked all this, every time I see this abbreviation for "person of color", my first thought is always that we're talkng about "pirates of the Caribbean" again, which makes for some really interesting misreadings. (Yaarr!)

[oyceter]

That is nice, to be on the high-caste end of accents! Ah, yes, awkward childhood memories of being embarrassed by my mom's accent and being embarrassed by the embarrassment.

Also, dude, can I be a Pirate of Color then? Now that you've said that, I'm totally going to read it every time I see POC!

[canandagirl.livejournal.com]

Oycter, I haven't read your entire post because I have to go to work in 30 seconds, but I just wanted to say that you shouldn't feel guilty about being Asian. Living in the US, I find people comment all the time about me being a Canadian. The comments aren't mean-spirited, but sometimes they are awkward ("How do you pronounce that?", "Hey, you do say 'eh'!). I just tell them that they better be nice to me, if they want me to put in a good word for them when Canada invades.

That threat usually doesn't work, but it certainly makes me feel better. :)

[oyceter]

Thank you! Usually I don't feel guilty about being Asian, unless people are being horrifically stupid. But then there are times I'm reminded that even if people aren't seeing me as a representative of Asian people, or even if they aren't seeing other Asians as representatives of Asian people, the possibility is always there, lurking. Hidden cost of racism, and whatnot.

Hey, I want a good word in for me too! ;)

[canandagirl.livejournal.com]

Hey, I want a good word in for me too!

Done.

What I really do like about meeting people from other cultures is the opportunity to get information of that culture, without having to learn via Discovery Channel or reading. For example, I can ask you all my stupid questions about Chinese cusine, and you can answer for me, which I think is always a fabulous way to learn.

I think other people do the same with me, and of course, I've gotten lots of really dumb questions, such as "Have you ever been to the Canadian part of Alaska?", and my favorite, "What tribe are you from?"

[oyceter]

Yeah, it's always a bit of a mixed bag for me. Because on one hand, yes, I like talking about Taiwan! On the other hand, I'm sort of sick of telling people that no, Taiwan doesn't make all little plastic toys anymore, yes, we make high tech computer stuff, etc. It sort of depends on the person too. And I feel bad being grouchy about the whole thing, because people are just curious sometimes.

tangent

[jinian.livejournal.com]

Did I date a white guy because I subconsciously think they are sexier then Asian men?

Obviously I can't totally refute this, but I've certainly dated a lot more men than women just because the ones attracted to me are easier to find.

Re: tangent

[oyceter]

*nods* Yeah.. not participating in a lot of Asian activities in college probably didn't help.

[rushthatspeaks.livejournal.com]

Great post. I would however like to reassure you on one point: half the pieces of mail you get spell your name wrong because half the pieces of mail *every single person in the country* gets spell their names wrong. It's a side-effect of bureaucracy. If it's only half, it means you've got an easy name. I mean, you'd think my first name wouldn't be that hard, right? In the last two weeks alone, we've gotten mail addressed to Lil, Lilac, Lisa, Liz, Lyle, and Li. And not all of it's junk mail: our power company persistently thinks my name is Lisa. Let's not even start on the permutations of my extremely difficult last name.

So I don't think that one is particularly racially motivated, or even in fact motivated at all. ^_^

[oursin.livejournal.com]

Yes, people getting names wrong seems to be hardwired: I get people writing to me with the wrong spelling of my first name, replying to an email which has the correct spelling right there, in front of them.

[oyceter]

Yeah, it's annoying. It's also just... even when it is something that happens to everyone, there's always that brief second of, "Is it because it's Asian?" that annoys me more.

[oyceter]

Yeah, I pretty much figure it isn't motivated at all! (My first name is a transliteration of my Chinese name, which compounds the mix-ups... a lot of people seem to think my first name is my last, or something)

Mostly I just wanted to point out that even in situations in which race has nothing to do with it, there's always that nidgy question in the back of my head because of all the other times that race did have something to do with it.

[rachelmanija.livejournal.com]

Regarding getting you confused with other people at work, the three of you being Asian probably does have something to do with it, but it may not be because people think you all look alike or all Asians are an amorphous mass or anything like that.

I have a lot of trouble with facial recognition of people I don't know very well, and often have to try to memorize people's face from a list of features rather than from a visual image. So if I was trying to memorize someone, I probably would make a list like, "Long straight black hair, tall, medium complexion, brown eyes, epicanthic fold, rimless glasses." Three people who all answer that description, even if they don't actually look much alike, might well confuse me. (I also have a lot of trouble telling what race anyone is based just on facial features, which may or may not be part of the same glitch.)

I've also read studies that say that people in general have better facial recognition for people of their own race, probably because they've had more practice learning what features are significant in recognition-- like, white people pay more attention to the shade of hair color, which would have been a worthless thing to notice in Japan before dye became popular. Though personally, I find white people are pretty hard to recognize too.

So, I suspect race has something to do with it, but maybe not in a sinister way.

[oyceter]

Yeah, I pretty much figure it's people who have a hard time with facial recognition in general. And the three of us really do look a lot alike -- I get the other two confused from the back if they come to work with the same hairstyle on one day.

It's more that the question of race even manages to get in the way of perfectly innocent things that bugs me, because a lot of the things I have questions about could be and often are totally innocuous. Race is just so... there... all the time, even when I'm not consciously thinking about it.

[rachelmanija.livejournal.com]

This is why I feel really bad when I mix up two people of the same race who aren't white, because I think it's a very reasonable thing for them to assume, and it probably drives them nuts. I do try to explain that it's my problem, but unless they end up getting to know me and my mental glitches a little better, I think that probably sounds like an excuse. With white people, I figure they just think I'm a nitwit. ;)

Regarding the misspelled name thing, I too get both of mine (Manija, which I fully understand is difficult), and Rachel, for which there is no excuse, misspelled all the time. But yeah, the fact that you don't know and mostly have no way of ever knowing has got to be really frustrating.

[deevalish.livejournal.com]

You know I had this huge post typed out and then I just shook my head and thought, "no".

Anyway I've got thoughts and probably lists too. But they're nowhere as collected as your's are. It's great that you're posting this.

[oyceter]

Oh no, I hope mine didn't scare you off or anything! If you do end up deciding to post, I'd love to see it.

[deevalish.livejournal.com]

No you didn't scare me off. The overall tone of my reply was unintentionally a counter to your experience. I have felt some of the same things that you mentioned but I also wasn't offended nor made uncomfortable by some of the other things said. I didn't want to come off as...I dunno "attacking" (it's not quite the word that I'm looking for) your pov because I wasn't but I could see how it could be misconstrued as one.

[oyceter]

*nods* I really appreciate the thought you're giving it!

And yeah, I figure my experiences will be very different from other Chinese experiences, much less other Asian experiences, and different people have different points at which they feel offended or uncomfortable.

"i've been everywhere!"

[(Anonymous)]

don't forget that an asian wife is implicit evidence that a white man is well-traveled and cosmopolitan. i had a conversation with writer ruth ozeki after a reading once (she's hapa) and she told me that among the friends she grew up with in new haven (where her white dad worked at yale) they'd joke that they were half-japanese and half anthropologist.

not to mention that men have been saying, like forever, that they've "been to" whatever country the woman they've slept with is from, as a way of saying that they've slept with her.

claire (http://clairelight.typepad.com)

Re: "i've been everywhere!"

[oyceter]

Oooo, ouch, I didn't even think of that one! Good catch.

[coffeeandink.livejournal.com]

I feel like you're getting a lot of responses that hasten to assure you particular examples aren't racist or racially motivated, and I even agree with some of them, but what I want to say is something else: that even if some of the examples are coincidental (in the real sense, not in the misdefining complicity in racism sense), you're not wrong or crazy or oversensitive to be wondering. You are responding the way sane and sensible people do: by wondering how new events fit into your existing framework. Which, for a person of color, means wondering how events fit into your experience of racism, because that's what you've had to deal with for so long, so often, and so often without any recognition of the effort it takes.

[oyceter]

I already told you this, but you rock ^_^. I agree that a lot of the things aren't racist or racially motivated, but yes, it's the constant flashes of questioning that's most annoying!

*hugs you*

[kchew.livejournal.com]

I found your observations about the nidgy feeling you have re: white male/Asian female pairings thought-provoking, and your wonderings about whether or not you date white men because some part of you thinks that they're sexier than Asian men. I used to date an Asian guy (I'm pretty white, he was third-generation), and still remember the deeply frustrating conversation that I had with him and an Asian friend of his about how they'd never ever date an Asian, and I tried to convince them that there was something deeply wrong about this. (Main reason: they didn't want to date someone who looked like their female family members. They weren't able to articulate the feeling much more beyond that). The funny part is that he and I broke up, he got married a few years later, and his wife is first-generation Asian. I still like to tease him about that, and he's graceful about it.

So, yes, maybe you date white men because you subconsciously think they're more attractive. However, (and I speak not knowing anything about who you know or hang out with) it could be that because you've more contact with non-Asian men, you're more likely to date a non-Asian than an Asian. Or because you're clicked on a personal level with the people you've dated, regardless of how they look, and date on the basis of personality. That's something to think about as well.

FYI: while I know of a good number of Asian female/white male pairings, I also know of a good number of Asian male/white female pairings, and it could be that the balance is starting to even out (at least here in Toronto, which is, admittedly, a very racially mixed city). I have been married to a racially-mixed man for seven years, with one child and another on the way, although I think that I married him because he's such a sexy, intelligent, ubergeek.

A big question to ask me would be, would I date someone who was a recent, non-white immigrant, and the answer is probably not. Why? In part, because I'm so aware of the cultural pitfalls that can wreck a relationship (my mother-in-law is first generation) that I'm not sure I'm up to that much decoding work, and a part of me assumes that they will be inherently misogynistic. How's that for an assumption? Off to cogitate some more.

[matt-ruff.livejournal.com]

So, yes, maybe you date white men because you subconsciously think they're more attractive.

While I think it's healthy to analyze the reasons why you feel a certain way, when you get into semantic tangles like "subconsciously think they're more attractive," that sounds less like honest introspection and more like an attempt to deny your emotions by intellectualizing them. If someone turns you on, they turn you on. It's OK to be uncomfortable with that, or to decide that it wouldn't be appropriate to act on your feelings, but they are still your feelings.

A big question to ask me would be, would I date someone who was a recent, non-white immigrant, and the answer is probably not. Why? In part, because I'm so aware of the cultural pitfalls that can wreck a relationship (my mother-in-law is first generation) that I'm not sure I'm up to that much decoding work, and a part of me assumes that they will be inherently misogynistic. How's that for an assumption?

I don't know about the assumption, but if you think you'd be uncomfortable dating someone, you shouldn't date them. If you enter into an intimate relationship that you think you should be open to, but really aren't, you're essentially using the other person as a form of emotional therapy. That's not fair to them.

[kchew.livejournal.com]

If someone turns you on, they turn you on. It's OK to be uncomfortable with that, or to decide that it wouldn't be appropriate to act on your feelings, but they are still your feelings.

In my own, awkward way, I was trying to be reassuring in what I said to Oyceter--that there are many reasons to be attracted to people--while acknowledging the possibilities in what she was saying, and trying not to invalidate her self-observations. The fact that a person could "subconsciously think [the other] is more attractive" (or consciously, as in the case of my ex-boyfriend) was something that I observed in the hour-long argument I had with him and his friend about why they found Asian women so unattractive. I was utterly caught off guard when they said to me quite baldly that they could write off an entire group of women as unattractive, despite the fact that these women looked a lot like them. It opened my eyes to how beauty is packaged and sold to us; not just in a Naomi Wolf "Beauty Myth" way, but racially, and how this packaging affects how people see themselves. So, I acknowledge that seeing people who are white as more attractive might happen, since I've seen it in action, and that people might not be aware that they're doing it. However, I wanted to emphasize that this subconscious/conscious feeling is far from the only factor in deciding who is attractive and who is not to you, and sometimes that's all you need to. That my ex married a recent Japanese immigrant is proof that these sorts of issues can be overcome, or supplanted by much more important issues like personality, compatibility, and so on.

I don't know about the assumption, but if you think you'd be uncomfortable dating someone, you shouldn't date them. If you enter into an intimate relationship that you think you should be open to, but really aren't, you're essentially using the other person as a form of emotional therapy. That's not fair to them.

In keeping with what I saw as Oyceter's painfully honest disclosure about what she needed to keep an eye on in herself in combating racism, I thought that I would mention something that I realized made me uncomfortable and that I needed to a) be aware of and b) combat in myself. Assuming that anyone who is not white and is first-generation is automatically going to be misogynist is a ridiculous idea, and one that I was not happy to find in myself last night when I was thinking my original post through. I agree: if you think that you'd be uncomfortable dating someone, then don't do it. However, I want to make sure that the reasons are because of personal compatibility, and not my preconceived notions of what they're going to be like before I even find out.

[oyceter]

However, I want to make sure that the reasons are because of personal compatibility, and not my preconceived notions of what they're going to be like before I even find out.

*nods* I think that's a good thing! And... I suspect, that issue will always come up in interracial relationships until racism isn't a problem anymore, simply because even if two people are attracted to each other, they've still got to function in society. And other people will ask, or it'll come up, or something.

[oyceter]

While I think it's healthy to analyze the reasons why you feel a certain way, when you get into semantic tangles like "subconsciously think they're more attractive," that sounds less like honest introspection and more like an attempt to deny your emotions by intellectualizing them.

What I was trying to point out was actually less the semantic tangles and introspection and more the fact that those thoughts crossed my mind and how illustrative it was of the fact that my being Asian is so embedded in my worldview, if that makes sense?

It's not so much that I really want to know if people get my name wrong because I'm Asian, or if they are attracted a smidgen more to me because of it, it's that I even have to wonder.

[matt-ruff.livejournal.com]

Sorry if I sidestepped your main point, or read too much into the choice of words. My antenna just naturally go up when I see a lot of qualifiers attached to a statement of emotion, because for me at least, when I say something like "I think it's possible that I kind of feel X," one of two things is typically going on:

(a) I definitely do feel X, and am trying to avoid dealing with the implications of that.
(b) I'm being neurotic. I don't feel X, but since feeling X would be a problem, my brain has latched onto the possibility that I feel X as a pretext for an anxiety spiral.

Either way, clarifying what I feel is the first order of business.

Also, in regards to (b), I'm struck that a lot of the things you say you wonder about are classic anxiety spiral-fodder, in that there's really no way to get a definitive answer to the questions, so you can go on worrying about them basically forever. And I'm not going to tell you not to go there, because you may not have a choice, but it may be worth noting that when people tell you "you're taking this stuff too seriously," at least some of the time what they're trying to say is "This line of thought is apt to make you crazy to no good purpose."

[oyceter]

Oh, no problem!

Ahhh, yeah, I do act neurotic a lot, but I've also found that I tend to do (a) a lot more than (b). So it's more useful reminding myself that the little nidgy uncomfortable feeling I get is usually a good sign of giant flaming things going wrong!

But of course, not everyone is like that!

[oyceter]

Well, part of it was that I didn't really know any Asians in college because I didn't want to be one of "those Asians" who sat together at the Asian table. So there is that bit of racism affecting it, if just on that level. The other bit is that... I don't know, and I'm probably never going to figure out. It's the whole "Do white people think about this when they date other white people?" question (not you, specifically!).

There was also the brief moment wondering if my ex dated me partially because I was Asian. I knew he was into Japan and his last gf was Asian as well, and of course, it was because he liked me too. But there's always some wondering that goes on because of how prevalent racism is.

[squirrel-monkey.livejournal.com]

"Non-British/Scottish/European/American/Australian accented-English only means one thing: someone is not that familiar with the language. I should know from my own, very limited, experience that halting words don't mean halting thoughts. I say all the "non-" bits above because I think those accents are usually perceived more favorably, or as less ignorant, than an Indian accent or a Chinese accent."

Some of your "non-"bits denote native English speakers. As for European accents, Eastern European accents are certainly not perceived favorably. At least in the American TV/movies they usually denote criminals (men) and prostitutes (women). Response to them in real life is only marginally better.

[oyceter]

Yeah, I was debating if I should leave in all the "non" bits or not, given the native English thing, but decided to keep them in because some are romanticized.

Good point on the Eastern European accents; I was more thinking of the whole "sexy [blah] accent" thing and didn't think about the Eastern-Western Europe divide.

[squirrel-monkey.livejournal.com]

I was just going to write a post about interaction between race and non-native accents. It's a more complex issue than I'd like, but I think I've compiled enough anecdotes to write something.

[oyceter]

Oh, that would be neat! I'm looking forward to it!

[squirrel-monkey.livejournal.com]

Posted! More limited than I intended, but.

[vivwiley.livejournal.com]

Great entry - I like your lists. I've been working on my "ways I try not to be racist" for a long time. For me it always comes back to trying to recognize and see through my own filters. Trying to see beyond the surface. Thanks for sharing this.

[oyceter]

Thank you!

[canandagirl.livejournal.com]

Why do half the pieces of mail I get spell my name wrong?

Believe me, I got a freaking, easy European name, and people still get my name wrong.

I have to say that I usually don't think twice when I encounter Asians. I like to think that I make my opinions of people based on who they are, and not on their ethnic background. However, I have to admit I usually have difficulties in understanding most Asians, especially when I first meet them. My sister-in-law is Chinese, and it took awhile before I could say that I understood everything she said. Nevertheless, we get along very well despite any language barriers, (and she's a wonderful cook! I have to ask her if she knows how to make soup dumplings!)

[oyceter]

Yeah, I'm not saying that people get my name wrong because of race, I'm more trying to say how race factors in to my perception of so many things, even in perfectly innocent situations, just because it's been a factor in other normal situations as well.

[kchew.livejournal.com]

I am adding something here, because it just happened, and I thought it appropos to our conversation.

I was talking with my neighbour, and it came up that I had dated an Asian before I married my husband (half Asian). She looked at me, and said "So, do you have a thing for Asian guys?"

I was floored. WTF? I couldn't believe what a rude thing it was for her to say, but if I hadn't been reading your posts, and thinking about this particular issue, I don't think that I could have saved myself from saying something really really rude out of shock. (My husband's response when I told him about this was to ask if I had asked her "Do you have a thing for assholes?" (we don't like her partner much). No one has ever said that to me before, and I don't think that it would have dawned on me that people *would* say things like that. The worst thing is that I don't think that she has any idea how rude she was being.

I answered very calmly that we had met through friends, and it was a reflection of the makeup of the group of people that I was friends with at the time. Since, however, I can't stop either laughing at the utter absurdity of this, and trying to decide how angry I want to get about it. Bleah.

So, weirdly, the IBARW came at just the right time for me. Thanks.

[oyceter]

Heh, that is so odd! Well, I guess not so odd given that yeah, people say stuff like that =(. I keep thinking that all this stuff has been happening since IBARW, but when I really think about it, I figure it's probably been happening for a while, but that I just didn't particularly notice it till now.