AKICODW/LJ

[oyceter]

Gah, I just realized FOGcon is only a week or so away!

And since I have profited greatly from posts like this in the past, help me think about what to say at my panel!

Gray is the New Purple

Aging isn’t for the weak of heart. What sf/f works deal with the topic of aging, either positively or negatively? Who gets it right and who should do some homework?

Moderator: Madeleine Robins
Panelists: Phyllis Holliday, Oyceter, Erin Hoffman

I can think of Tehanu off the top of my head, and I remember someone asking for representations of older women in SF/F, not counting immortals, people who do not physically age, and etc., and the list was fairly scanty.

I love DWJ's Howl's Moving Castle, but I've always thought it was odd how Sophie suddenly begins to think like an old woman and how there is no disparity between her own self image and her changed physical image. Maybe this is particularly interesting because I feel we see more of the opposite situation in SF/F: old people in young bodies, thanks to magic/science/alien technology/plot point/etc.

I really like how A:TLA includes multiple kickass old men, but I really wish there were awesome old women as well. The only few we see tend to be on the creepy side, and there's definitely no equivalent of Uncle Iroh.

I wonder how much of A:TLA's old people kicking ass has to do with its martial arts heritage? I think several of the older women I've seen in wuxia movies tend to be the villains, but they have a much greater presence than what I've read in English-language SF/F. Possibly this has to do with the greater number of female martial artists and the whole cameo thing?

Thoughts? Ideas? Anyone?

Comments

[lacewood]

Martha Wells has a number of older women who play prominent roles of varying significance in her books (though as a warning there is character death).

Wheel of the Infinite: The main protagonist is an older woman of colour - her son is at least in his twenties so I'd assume she was in her late forties or fifties.

The Death of the Necromancer: Has an old woman who is a powerful witch and the grandmother of a major character.

The Element of Fire: One of the major characters earlier in the book is the Dowager Queen.

The Cloud Roads: Pearl, the Queen of the colony, is old, powerful and plays a significant role.

A number of YA books also have mothers/fathers of the teenage characters (so at least middle age or older) play major roles, if you're interested in those as well.

[oyceter]

Oh cool, and yes, I am definitely interested in YA as well!

Note to self: Grace Lin's When the Mountain Meets the Moon has the heroine's parents a bit as well.

[lacewood]

Not YA but I just remembered that Ben Aaronovitch's Midnight Riot/Moon Over Soho has as interesting example. The main character's mentor figure is apparently aging backwards - he appears to be in his sixties but should really be 20-30 years older. Seems to be an ongoing series subplot/mystery.

For YA/children, Harry Potter has several older characters among the Hogwarts teachers, the most prominent being Dumbledore, Hagrid and McGonagall.

Fox and Phoenix by Beth Bernobich (it also has a prequel novella that can be read free online called Pig, Crane, Fox): Chinese-esque fantasy; the main character's mother doesn't get a lot of screentime but she's a significant part of his life and a formidable teacher/magician in her own right.

Bleeding Violet by Dia Reeves: The main character has a difficult, complicated relationship with her mother. Other notes: the main character and her mother are POC, and hinted to be sexually promiscious without the narrative judging them for this. Some might find the portrayal of main character's mental illness a little problematic.

Mare's War by Tanita S. Davis: Two girls go on a roadtrip with their grandmother and learn about her past as an African American woman in the US war effort during WW2.

The Exiles by Hilary McKay: 4 sisters are sent to live with their grandmother, hijinks ensue.

The Demon's Covenant by Sarah Rees Brennan: Has Annabel, Jamie and Mae's mother, who would be at least middle aged and also badass. Unfortunately, spoilers happen. Some other characters in the series might also qualify but I'm not entirely sure how old they are exactly.

There are probably a lot of examples I'm missing but these were the ones that came to mind! Also, Roald Dahl's The Witches is totally a great example of an old lady being awesome

[lacewood]

Whoops, I just realised that Mare's War/The Exiles probably don't count because they're not SFF, sorry XD;

A few other examples I thought of:

Mortal Cities quartet by Philip Reeve: YA post-apocalyptic series. Between the first 2 books and the last 2 books, there is a timeskip so the teenage cast of the early books is middle aged/older by the later books. Prominent examples are Tom and Hester, the protagonists of the earlier books, who later have a teenage daughter of their own.

The Sun Sword series by Michelle West: Teresa should qualify, since she's certainly in her 40s/50s; some others might also be old enough but she's the most prominent example that comes to mind.

No Humans Involved by Kellery Armstrong: Rare example of urban fantasy with a older female protagonist. Main character is around her 40s/50s, I think, and has her own romance.

Flora Segunda of Crackpot Hall by Ysabeau Wilce: Main character's mother doesn't get much screentime but is the General of the army; her father is also a prominent character.

[oyceter]

Hee, no problem, and thanks so much for all the suggestions!

[oyceter]

Oh, and I forgot! Probably the first kickass older woman story I ever read was Roald Dahl's The Witches