Thoughts on morality and fiction
Sat, Apr. 24th, 2004 02:31 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
oyceterI've been kind of mulling over morality and fiction/fictional worlds lately, not sparked by anything in particular. It's more a combination of old AtPo and LJ posts examining the morality of various Buffy and Angel characters, particularly of the reaction to LMPTM, to Jenny-O's post on misogyny and the Connor arc, and to many previous things.
Sometimes I wonder why it matters to us so much that our characters or shows have a moral theme. I hear stuff about Eowyn abandoning her duty to Rohan, and I have that instant in which I feel I must defend her, or something silly like that. Why does it matter so much to me that Eowyn be in the right? And it obviously does, even though intellectually I can appreciate how having these moral dilemmas for her character makes her a much more dynamic and interesting character. And I hate it when characters are always in the moral right, like the Heralds of Valdemar or something. Except, now that I think about it, that's not what bugs me the most. What annoys me the most is that they are not always in the moral right, and yet, everyone treats them as though they were -- they being any fictional character suffering Mary Sue-itis, or being whitewashed somehow. It's that they are making choices which I find morally grey to say the least, such as killing people (no matter what the cause) and suffering no consequence.
It's like my reaction when I read Reading Lolita in Tehran. I was so angry in parts at the author's description of Lolita that I didn't want to read the book, even though later on, I was mentally cheering as the author defended The Great Gatsby against charges of immorality.
I do not think that fiction has to uphold a certain moral standard. At the same time, I will throw a book against a wall if it violates my own moral standards. Furthermore, my moral standards while reading are very liable to shift -- if the author does a good enough job in painting the mindset of a racist, I may even come to understand. I would not condone or countenance it, but I would have maybe a bit more insight to the why. If the author does a poor job, I chuck the book. I think I also need it so that even if the characters or even the ending of the story does not uphold some sort of moral rightness (bad guy punished, good guy rewarded), I need for the author to somehow pass judgment. I am okay with characters doing horrible or ambiguous things as long as the authorial intent as perceived by myself is that said thing is horrible or ambiguous.
This is how I can enjoy romance novels with coercion fantasies or dark romances in which the hero or heroine is obviously not a good person. I'm fine with the entire thing about falling in love with a murderer and believing that he (mostly he in romances) is redeemable through twu wuv, as long as the author realizes that this is an incredibly insane idea. Hrm, ok, actually sometimes I am so drawn in by the story that I find myself agreeing, and then I wonder what has happened to me. And yet, I get extremely angry at any misogyny I perceive in fiction.
And obviously I am very concerned with the morality of things that I partake of -- I spend tons of time wondering if said movie is exoticizing Asian culture while maintaining a superior moral stance, if it is somehow not being respectful, or if so and so book is in fact subtly homophobic or if a TV show is in fact being misogynistic. Part of my thesis was realizing that for some things, I don't necessarily feel there is a moral message in the fact that Japanese girls enjoy reading about homosexual boys. But if you put in Asian girls and people of other races enjoying looking at that kind of porn, yes, I have a problem with that. Then I wonder if the analogy is in fact correct, if maybe it should be people enjoying narratives about interracial couples or something, back when it was illegal.
Mostly I am confusing myself now. I think maybe I am trying to say that while I do not believe art has to be moral, I personally have big problems when it isn't. And yet, I have the same problems when it is didactic. So I guess the big question is: why is this so important to me, and to other people, it seems, from how much discussion is generated by things like "is the mindwipe right?" "Should Dawn have been killed in the Gift?"
Hrm. The post that never ends, because I just thought, duh, obviously it is important to me because I get to test out moral dilemmas on fiction, where it does not blow up the world if something goes wrong. Well, partly at least. I wonder if other people are like that, and thus, if all the arguments are about indirectly arguing for a certain moral POV.
I really need to go to bed and stop thinking circular thoughts now... Apologies if this made no sense to anyone!!
Sometimes I wonder why it matters to us so much that our characters or shows have a moral theme. I hear stuff about Eowyn abandoning her duty to Rohan, and I have that instant in which I feel I must defend her, or something silly like that. Why does it matter so much to me that Eowyn be in the right? And it obviously does, even though intellectually I can appreciate how having these moral dilemmas for her character makes her a much more dynamic and interesting character. And I hate it when characters are always in the moral right, like the Heralds of Valdemar or something. Except, now that I think about it, that's not what bugs me the most. What annoys me the most is that they are not always in the moral right, and yet, everyone treats them as though they were -- they being any fictional character suffering Mary Sue-itis, or being whitewashed somehow. It's that they are making choices which I find morally grey to say the least, such as killing people (no matter what the cause) and suffering no consequence.
It's like my reaction when I read Reading Lolita in Tehran. I was so angry in parts at the author's description of Lolita that I didn't want to read the book, even though later on, I was mentally cheering as the author defended The Great Gatsby against charges of immorality.
I do not think that fiction has to uphold a certain moral standard. At the same time, I will throw a book against a wall if it violates my own moral standards. Furthermore, my moral standards while reading are very liable to shift -- if the author does a good enough job in painting the mindset of a racist, I may even come to understand. I would not condone or countenance it, but I would have maybe a bit more insight to the why. If the author does a poor job, I chuck the book. I think I also need it so that even if the characters or even the ending of the story does not uphold some sort of moral rightness (bad guy punished, good guy rewarded), I need for the author to somehow pass judgment. I am okay with characters doing horrible or ambiguous things as long as the authorial intent as perceived by myself is that said thing is horrible or ambiguous.
This is how I can enjoy romance novels with coercion fantasies or dark romances in which the hero or heroine is obviously not a good person. I'm fine with the entire thing about falling in love with a murderer and believing that he (mostly he in romances) is redeemable through twu wuv, as long as the author realizes that this is an incredibly insane idea. Hrm, ok, actually sometimes I am so drawn in by the story that I find myself agreeing, and then I wonder what has happened to me. And yet, I get extremely angry at any misogyny I perceive in fiction.
And obviously I am very concerned with the morality of things that I partake of -- I spend tons of time wondering if said movie is exoticizing Asian culture while maintaining a superior moral stance, if it is somehow not being respectful, or if so and so book is in fact subtly homophobic or if a TV show is in fact being misogynistic. Part of my thesis was realizing that for some things, I don't necessarily feel there is a moral message in the fact that Japanese girls enjoy reading about homosexual boys. But if you put in Asian girls and people of other races enjoying looking at that kind of porn, yes, I have a problem with that. Then I wonder if the analogy is in fact correct, if maybe it should be people enjoying narratives about interracial couples or something, back when it was illegal.
Mostly I am confusing myself now. I think maybe I am trying to say that while I do not believe art has to be moral, I personally have big problems when it isn't. And yet, I have the same problems when it is didactic. So I guess the big question is: why is this so important to me, and to other people, it seems, from how much discussion is generated by things like "is the mindwipe right?" "Should Dawn have been killed in the Gift?"
Hrm. The post that never ends, because I just thought, duh, obviously it is important to me because I get to test out moral dilemmas on fiction, where it does not blow up the world if something goes wrong. Well, partly at least. I wonder if other people are like that, and thus, if all the arguments are about indirectly arguing for a certain moral POV.
I really need to go to bed and stop thinking circular thoughts now... Apologies if this made no sense to anyone!!
(no subject)
Sun, Apr. 25th, 2004 03:11 pm (UTC)I've always found the debates on certain characters' morality on AtPO interesting because in general, I find watching the greyer characters more interesting. I think the real problem is in the perceived authorial intent -- watching grey characters is much less fun if one is not supposed to see them as grey. Maybe that's why there are the giant debates over Spike (and Willow to a lesser extent).
(no subject)
Sun, Apr. 25th, 2004 03:48 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Sun, Apr. 25th, 2004 10:31 pm (UTC)