DW knows all: pet edition

[oyceter]

So. I have had pet rats for the past 7 years, and although I love them to pieces, I think their short lifespans (2-3 years) are really wearing on me emotionally. (Poor Ed-rat. I think he is getting lonely too... he is getting kind of neurotic when I play with him.)

I think I am currently looking for a pet that isn't too high maintenance or expensive. I'm not interested in getting a dog, and I'm slightly allergic to cats. I'd prefer something that can't mess furniture up. I also tend to like the older guy rats because they're lazy and squishy and cuddly, as opposed to the more energetic girl rats. I'd also like something that lives for at least 5 years.

So far, I have been thinking of either ferrets or guinea pigs, but I have no idea outside of random things I've read on the Internet. I would also not be opposed to getting a litter-trained non-kitten cat or so, but have no idea how much work cats are. I'd also prefer adopting from a rescue agency over getting a pet from a breeder or pet store.

Also, I went to a local rat adoption fair and nearly succumbed. There was a pair of one-year-old boy rats, all fat and squishy, and one of them was a black berkshire like Fitz-rat, and one of them was a black rex like Ren. SO CUTE! Especially the black rex! He was even kind of balding like Ren! I so wanted to take them home! I always get so sad seeing the adult rats in adoption fairs, because their chances of being adopted are so low, thanks to the lifespan thing. I was trying to tell myself that if I got the two boys, maybe I wouldn't get as attached to them when they died in a year or so? Ha.

Comments

[coraa]

I am tremendously fond of guinea pigs, and I'd have them now if I didn't have cats.

Guinea pigs are pretty low maintenance and, if you get them young, do live for a while. We got ours when I was in fourth grade, and they survived until I was in high school—about five years, I think, total. They require almost nothing except for food, water, something to chew on, and a home with a place they can hide (we put a cardboard shoebox in the cage with them, which served both for hiding and chewing). They don't try to escape, really.

The down side is that they are less interactive than either rats or ferrets. Ours liked us, and would come over and squeak to say hello, and would purr (well, it's techically called burbling, but it sounds like a purr), and we could hold them... but they didn't really play. They were more like, uh, warm fuzzy potatoes with little legs. So if you want a lot of playfulness and interactivity, piggies are probably not the way to go.

That said, they are one of my favorite little animals.

[coraa]

(I also have to share that when my brother was about eight, he had the brilliant idea of training them to run a maze for a science fair project. They loved fresh lettuce, so he built a maze out of blocks and put lettuce at the end. The guinea pigs, showing surprising intelligence for a creature that acts like a furry potato most of the time, took one look at the maze, and then trundled straight through to the lettuce, knocking down every block in the process.)

via network

[jumpuphigh]

Have you thought about rabbits. They can be litter-trained, are very sociable, and are smart. Plus, they are super-cuddly and soft.

Re: via network

[oyceter]

I have briefly! I had a friend who had a single rabbit once, and he didn't seem too sociable, but that might have just been the rabbit?

[umadoshi]

Rabbits are my first thought, too. I've never had one, but the friends who have or have had them adore them.

[oyceter]

Oh okay! I was initially not pro-rabbit at first... one of my friends had one and he was mostly grumpy and non-interactive and escaped at every attempt and chewed through stuff, but possibly it was just that rabbit!

[sophia_helix]

Cats, I think, are very easy, but maybe I've always been lucky with the ones I've had. My current cat is more demanding attention-wise and she's been a bit more of a pain than I'm used to, but I think boy cats are more laidback than girls, and older ones especially so. You can even go away for up to two nights and leave them well-stocked with a food bowl, water, and a litterbox and they'll do fine, which is my personal definition of low maintenance -- plus scooping out a litterbox is way less annoying than cleaning a rodent cage. No bathing, no walking, etc. It's also easy to get someone to cat-sit by checking in every day or so when you're out of town, versus taking the animals to their house.

I would basically go down to the shelter and tell them what you're looking for, and I'm sure they'd easily find you an older, chill boy cat who's litter-trained, fixed, has all his shots, and will cuddle nicely with you without being too demanding.

[oyceter]

Ooo okay. How much is it to keep cats? I vaguely know they require more vet visits and vaccinations and stuff than rats, but that's about all I know...

[djkittycat]

I would not call ferrets easy. They can be bitey and they jump up and down and also their poo smells really really bad.

My friend had a porcupine, but I don't know how long they live. You can walk it in a plastic ball though :-D.

[oyceter]

That is good to know! Thank you!

Awwwww porcupines!

[mme_hardy]

Ferrets are illegal in CA. I hear good things about rabbits, although the necessary appartment-proofing is said to be major.

[oyceter]

Good to know!

Also, hrm, major apartment proofing might be iffy...

[willow]

My first thought for you was ALSO a rabbit. They can be little trained, run free in the house and often demand scritches and huggles and can live healthily within the time frame you mentioned. And they do have rescue groups, etc.

My thoughts on ferrets are: HIGH MAINTENANCE. I direct you here: http://www.manitobaferrets.ca/funhouse/badferret.html

It will make you laugh, and also make you realize how much work they are.

I find cats to be independent and demanding, according to temperament. Sometimes you get one that's very touchy, sometimes you get one that lets you know it lives with you as a favour to you.

[oyceter]

Good to know, thank you! I love cats, but I'm worried about the allergies...

[rachelmanija]

Ferrets are very high-maintenance. They are also illegal in California. Guinea pigs are cute but tend not to have all that much personality.

Cats are pretty low-maintenance, and two cats are easier than one - one cat will often get lonely and neurotic. Though maybe not if you adopt an older cat who was used to being alone. They are very affectionate and smart, and a short-hair might not set off your allergies much. Cats can live a very, very long time - up to 20 years.

I also recommend rabbits, though I would check to see if you're also allergic to them. (Get two, so they'll keep each other company.) They are reasonably intelligent and can be litter-trained, and they live about ten years. I've had several rabbits, and I loved them. Caveat: they gnaw. A lot. You will need to keep them in a hutch when you're not home, and keep an eye on them when they're running around the apartment.

[oyceter]

Good to know, thank you!

How did you play with your rabbits? Did you let them run loose most of the time and just keep them in a hutch to sleep? How did you like them compared to rats?

Woe. I miss having rats already and keep talking myself out of adopting those two adult ones.

[rilina]

As you know, I love my new(ish) kitties to pieces and am well on the road to becoming a crazy cat lady. They haven't been cheap, but that's mostly been because I spoil them rotten and have to board them when I go away (the problem of not knowing people in the neighborhood well enough to ask them to cat sit). Also, there are extra start-up costs with regards to adopting kittens rather than older cats. But the kitties are wonderful company. I think I have lucked out as far as temperament: they are cuddly and social and loving, but I can easily manage the level of attention they demand. The houseproofing hasn't been too onerous, and they actually haven't ruined anything expensive like furniture. They are good about using their scratching post. (Mine do like to chew paper, however, and will occasionally munch on book covers and mail.)

However, I will say that having kitties has definitely made me realize that I am somewhat more allergic to cats than I thought, and I am still trying to figure out how much of that is the extended exposure, the cat litter, etc. Or perhaps an allergy to the state where I now live. (Too many variables, sigh.) So unless you're really prepared to be in that situation (I have come to terms that I probably will never be able to wear contacts again), I would be very cautious about trying to adopt cats while having mild allergies.

[oyceter]

Your cats are SO CUTE! Also, they are very much the reason why I am reconsidering cats.

Hrm. I already have fairly bad allergies because of California. Sigh... it's either humid weather and asthma or bad allergies for me apparently... I think I'd want to hang out with some cats for a while to see how bad it is. I know I can do it for a few days, because I've done that before, but I'm not sure having them around all the time would be good or not.

[octopedingenue]

Guinea pigs are awesome because they are as sweet and friendly as rats, but they are dumber and less dexterous than rats, so they are not going to figure out how to escape from cages and climb up curtains, etc. Guinea pigs are the big, friendly, fluff-brained golden retrievers of rodents. They like to live in groups and wash themselves like cats, and from birth their babies are already perfect fluffy miniatures of the full-size model.

Also, in South America (where they are food), guinea pigs are called cuy, which is adorable Pokemon Speak.

My (only, so far) guinea pig lived about three years, but I have known them living longer. I also in childish ignorance housed her in cedar chip bedding, which is apparently DEADLY MIASMIC POISON, so you can avert that part.

I have heard that ferrets are energetic and friendly but smelly--that musky Mustelid family.

[coraa]

Guinea pigs are awesome because they are as sweet and friendly as rats, but they are dumber and less dexterous than rats, so they are not going to figure out how to escape from cages and climb up curtains, etc. Guinea pigs are the big, friendly, fluff-brained golden retrievers of rodents.

This is pretty much exactly everything I love about guinea pigs!

[nikicole]

I have had many, many cats and I've not found any of them to be terribly high maintenance. If they have food, water, and a clean litter box they are good to go. I know you have allergies but I remember reading something about Maine Coon cats not producing as much of whatever it is in the spit that causes an allergic reaction. I'd check a local adoption site and see if any of them have a Main Coon type kitty that is past the kitten stage.

[oyceter]

Yeah... I suspect I may hold off on cats until I am in a more cat-friendly environment and have the health insurance for allergy shots just in case. They are so cute though!

[vass]

My own experience with guinea pigs is that they're disappointing compared to rats. Not as cuddly, not as interactive, not as funny and smart and playful.

My own answer to your lifespan problem was to get a cat, but if your allergies make that impossible, then I agree with everyone else who suggested a rabbit.

[oyceter]

*nods* Although haha, I am actually drawn to the "furry potato with legs" description, since I love my rats the bestest when they become floppy lazy lap rats who just sleep on my feet.

[julian]

Lifespan for guinea pigs is 5-8 years, but generally I find they hang out til about 5. Eat veggies, can potentially be trained to poop in one of a few spots (but I never did, ahem). I eventually stopped having them because of the same issue -- 5 years was too short. BUT it's longer than for rats, which is a plus.

They are quite cute, and will often be very friendly and cuddly. Have a few of them, and they can keep each other company and also be friendly.

I was also going to suggest degus. I have an acquiantance who has them, and they seem very affable.

[umadoshi]

Oh, degus! I was trying to remember what they were called last night.

Oyce, this is even more secondhand that my rabbit suggestion, but a friend of mine used to work in a pet store and she really liked the degus.

[daedala]

This link will help you decide between guinea pigs and cats, because it has pictures of both. Interacting together.

(BTW, the super-mellow, guinea-pig-grooming cat is the one my neurotic kitty is convinced is going to EAT HER. The fluoxetine seems to be helping, though.)

Guinea pigs don't have food that runs away in their evolutionary history, so they don't really play much. Cats play a lot, and are enough like us that they react similarly to Prozac. :)

[julian]

Oh, man. My guinea pigs (obviously) didn't proceed with the playing, when my cat tried to initiate it, and it /offended/ my cat heartily. (She got over it. And groomed them. Which they put up with patiently.)

[arboretum]

well, i can kind of only tell you about cats (i have 2! they are the best thing that has ever happened to me in my life, bar none!) but!

i think depending on the temperament and health of the cat, a cat can be either incredibly low-maintenance and easy (like my older one) or... extremely high-maintenance. (my younger one tiptoes into this category sometimes, ahaha.) sometimes they are mellow and sleep a lot, sometimes they loooooooove you so much you can barely peel them off, sometimes they are cagey and just want to be left alone, sometimes they are hyper energetic and bounce off the walls breaking shit if you so much as take an eye off them for five minutes. really depends on the animal!

and it is really impossible to tell these things when they are kittens! so. if you do consider a cat, i would recommend a slightly older cat. 1 year old or so is pretty much full grown and by then their personalities have become pretty apparent and they have also gotten through the rocky stages of kittenhood during which they are INCREDIBLY FRAIL and prone to illness and sometimes stupidly suicidal which is just such a terrible combination i sometimes wonder if my cats are especially dumb or if it's just a miracle in general that cats in the wild even manage to live to adulthood lskdjflkgj

re: allergies, i wouldn't take the shelter test (i.e. going to a shelter and seeing if you react) too seriously. er. i mean, i practically break out in hives when i go to most animal shelters. if i spend more than about 5 minutes in the cat room my eyes start watering, i itch everywhere, my nose starts running, and i turn red, which seems like it would indicate i have severe allergies to cats, but in fact i have zero allergic reaction to one of my cats, and re: the other i sometimes come away from cuddling her feeling itchy, but usually only when i have been away from her for over a week. being around her for a while re-acclimitizes me to her allergens. but ymmv. :o i think i react so strongly to shelters bc as hard as they try, they just can't actually keep it as clean as, you know. a home. nor would there honestly be much point in doing so as there are constantly animals coming and going etc etc. idk just guessing lol.

but in any case i really do believe every cat is different. some may cause more intense allergic reactions than others, but there is not really a good way to tell until you've spent some time with them in isolation. er, if i were you and i found that i was just allergic in general to shelters, i might try a rescue organization (like, for instance, i thought about getting a cat through the pacific siamese rescue for a bit, though i ended up not doing so for no reason other than i found one i liked at the shelter), which may ask a lot of prying questions, but also since they are usually volunteer-run, don't have a centralized location, so when you go to see the cats you will see them in their foster homes. the advantage to this is 1) cat does not live with 80 other cats any of which might be the real culprit re: allergies, and 2) the foster "parent"/owner will most likely have had a chance to really get to know the cat so you can ask questions and get real answers re: the cats health, temperament, etc.

of course, i am unabashedly cat crazy, so i would go to just about any lengths for a cat, and you may not want to go through the trouble, ahaha. but! just throwing that suggestion out there xD

[octopedingenue]

Cats are obviously so adorable as babies because kittens are MAGNIFICENTLY DUMB and require lots of supervision from older animals with high enough brain function to be vulnerable to "SOCUTE!" There is nothing between their kitten ears but fluff and sugar-rush. I've had mostly adolescent-to-older cats because the couple of times we kept kittens, they were painfully cute, but we spent half the time herding them away from the Big Red Button labeled "PUSH HERE TO DIE."

One of my life goals is nonetheless to have a box of kittens poured on me, thus. It would be an excellent singing-telegram alternative to a bouquet of roses.

[jinian]

Guinea pigs share humans' inability to synthesize vitamin C. That and the part where they are meepy fur potatoes eaten in South America are my only knowledge of them.

Ferrets: yes, illegal there and smelly even when de-scented; OMG yes, high maintenance.

Cats: problematic allergy/asthma-wise, as there's evidence that even people who are not allergic to cats develop reduced airflow when living with cats; otherwise there are lots of sweet, calm adult cats who have trouble finding homes because they don't get on with other pets, who would likely be perfect for you.

Rabbits: like to chew things but can be very sweet, as noted above.

[octopedingenue]

Meepy fur potatoes! I love this!

[cyprinella]

I'm a big fan of gerbils as rodent pets - generally longer lived than rats and not prone to nearly as many illnesses, although not as cuddly - but if you're in CA, they're illegal. Boo! Degus might be interesting. They're like chinchillas in a lot of ways but a bit more active and personable. Their diets are really fussy (at least compared to gerbils) and I did not have a lot of luck with them.

[oyceter]

Booo illegal! OMG the degus are so cute!

[loligo]

I had a friend who had multiple rabbits. Apparently they have very decided opinions when it comes to their rabbitty social lives -- some rabbits hate each other on sight, but those same bunnies may develop life-long devoted friendships with other rabbits that they click with. Our local animal shelter had two huge white rabbits (maybe Flemish Giants?) who lived there for years, because they needed to be adopted together.

Another friend of mine had one rabbit, one cat, and one dog, and they all got along together wonderfully!

If you have allergy issues, I would be very wary of cats, because once you fall in love with them you'll keep them regardless of your respiratory distress (speaking from Andy's personal experience), and that's just not a great road to go down.

[oyceter]

Yeah.... I am especially worried because right now I don't have the resources for allergy shots or a lot of initial investment, and I'm a bit worried about what the cats might do to where I'm living right now...

[heavenscalyx]

I have no experience with animals smaller than cats other than ferrets. I found this interesting article re cat allergies that oddly quotes a study that confirms my own anecdotal observations: I'm not allergic to cats, in general, but if I pet a tuxedo cat, I shouldn't rub my eyes. My only real allergic reactions seem to come from cats with black as a dominant color (and one Egyptian Mau whose owner confirms that some people who aren't allergic to cats are allergic to her Mau). I've never had a problem with either our brown tabbies or our Russian blue-type.

Our cats are expensive, as we have three elderly beasts, one of whom is a brittle, insulin-insensitive diabetic. We feed them expensive high-protein food, and buy glucosamine to mix into their food (they're slightly arthritic) and insulin/needles for the diabetikitty. So we're probably a good example of the high price point. Our maintenance for Perdita, the diabetikitty, is about $500/year in vet visits and medication (just for maintenance -- this leaves out the occasional emergencies for infections or comorbidities from her diabetes), plus her share of the expensive high-protein food is about $450/year. So, for an elderly diabetic kitty on an extremely high dose of insulin, we average about $1000/year, leaving aside any sudden vet needs (of which we have about one a year).

In terms of personality, our youngest (3), who was an abandoned stray, is an enormous fluffy beast who likes to be picked up and hugged, and who purrs at the drop of a hat. Our evil overlord (anecdotal observations tend to provide evidence to support an assertion that Russian blue-type cats come in two varieties: teddy bears and evil overlords; we have the latter) is a lap cat who demands enormous amounts of attention and ear scritchings and who likes to sing to us in the middle of the night; she has stayed fairly constant in her need for attention over the last 15 years. Our tabby boy with the enormous anime eyes has gone from being standoffish to being very needy (over 14 years) -- he likes belly rubs and spankings. The diabetikitty is an ex-feral who has taken over 11 years to get used to us, and still wants attention entirely on her own terms, which generally means her cuddling for about five minutes and then going for a lie-down away from the monkeys.

[oyceter]

Awwwwwwww! Thanks so much for the info!

[pandarus]

Depends on the individual, of course, but imho cats are pretty damned low maintenance. They sometimes come and hang out with you, but much of the time they sleep, or go off doing their own thing. You just need to feed them, and possibly deal with litter tray issues if they can't go outside.

Of course, they are convinced they are top of the in-house pecking order, so there's that. But mostly they're pretty low-maintenance, imho.

[oyceter]

Hee, thanks! I am not sure the place I'm living in right now is the best for cats, and worried about allergies, but we'll see.

[veejane]

As others have stated above, if you do go the cat route, there are a lot of varieties of cat, which you'll want to navigate according to your needs. Even in shelters, there are lots of purebred or 1st-generation mixes among the mongrels.

For example, my cat is probably a 1st generation mix of Egyptian Mau or one of the south Asian breeds, as she's long and slim, very agile, affectionate and a bit high-strung, has a tiny head and big ears, and yodels. All of the tiny-headed, big-eared breeds yodel (Siamese are notorious for it, as for their crossed blue eyes), which can be annoying if you're not used to it but entertaining if you are.

My mother's cat, by contrast, is gigantic, heavy-boned, quasi-longhaired, with webbed toes: he is a Maine Coon, so named because it's as big and bushy as a racoon, or maybe a bobcat. Maine Coons are cold-resistant but wilt in hot weather, and show behaviors much more doglike than most cats. (He's eaten non-food items and needed surgery, e.g., which is totally a doggy thing to do.) He speaks very little, and it's a high-pitched chirp. He's really mean to everybody but my mother.

There are even hairless cats, theoretically meant for the allergic! I... dunno about them though.

[littlebutfierce]

From what I know the hairless cats are comparatively v. high-maintenance for cats, as well: I've heard they're rather delicate, health-wise, & always have to wear sweaters (seriously) inside or whatever...

[littlebutfierce]

A word of caution about adopting a cat if you have allergies; from my (limited!) experience doing animal rescue work, the top two reasons people get rid of pets (including cats) are: the landlord objects; or someone has allergies. I know several people who have cat allergies who do have cats, but depending on severity it can involve lots of maintenance like daily vacuuming (I think my brother & his partner got a Roomba for this reason...), not letting the cat in the bedroom ever, periodic allergy shots, etc.

Although if you are interested in cats but want to maybe test the waters, you could possibly consider fostering a cat. Most rescue groups have way more potential animals to help than people who can take them in; generally they pay for food & anything else needed while you're fostering the cat. Aaaaaand if you don't have any allergies & fall in love w/the cat, well, it's almost a cliche that lots of fosterers end up adopting their fosters.

[octopedingenue]

Fostering as a cat-test is an excellent idea! I suspect one can foster other pet-species as well, depending on the shelter.

Then oyceter can post pictures for us a la The Itty Bitty Kitty Committee :D

I know where you're coming from

[(Anonymous)]

After owning rats off and on for several years, I completely understand. At one point, I told my parents never to let me get rats again, and said that, if I sounded like I might be considering it, they needed to remind me how crushed I was after the death of my last rats. Then, traitors that they are, they gave me the final push I needed when I saw a little or recently weaned rats at a pet store - I was supposed to just be tagging along while my mom got food for the dogs, and I left he store with a couple babies and everything necessary to care for them.

The last of my little boys died in May, after a few horrible weeks of worsening old age problems. Like you, I love rats, but I didn't think I could face the sadness of watching them get middle aged after a year and elderly a year after that.

I would NOT recommend ferrets, since you prefer male rats that are more cuddly. My aunt had rats, and, although they were cute when they were sleeping, they tended to get everywhere while awake, and they liked to bite. I'm sure there are ferret owners who have had different experiences, but I was never entirely convinced that these ferrets liked people.

My sister recommended Chinchillas to me, which can, I think, have lifespans as long as 10 to 20 years. Like rats, they need to be handled a lot. I'd gotten to see my sister's Chinchillas before, and they seemed nice enough, but their lifespans seemed like a big commitment when I wasn't even sure I'd like owning a Chinchilla myself.

I've owned guinea pigs before and found them to be very affectionate. Personally, I think rats are smarter, but guinea pigs have some really nice aspects. For one thing, as they get older and mellow out, they can be good lap pets. For another, there's the longer lifespan - not as long as Chinchillas, but a heck of a lot better than 2 to 3 years. I also really liked that they make purring noises when you pet them. They're really vocal pets, actually - mine whistled during morning feedings.

My apartment changed its rules about pets while I was trying to decide what to do, so I now have a cat, but I would probably have gotten a guinea pig if it hadn't been for that. Sorry for the long comment - I wish you luck and less heartbreak, whatever you decide.

Re: I know where you're coming from

[oyceter]

I knooowww... Well, the good thing for me is that I used to have mice as a kid, so basically I'd get all the heartbreak without any of the fun and interaction that rats have.

I like lap pets! I suspect I am also ok with them being not as smart as rats, since I love the rats the best when they are lazy and squishy and sleep on my feet.

Eugie Foster on skunks as pets

[oracne]

http://www.eugiefoster.com/mustalayday/pet-skunk-faq

Her skunk lived for a number of years.

Re: Eugie Foster on skunks as pets

[octopedingenue]

Illegal in California. :(

[octopedingenue]

Dug up some more California pet restrictions. Degus and fennec foxes are also illegal. :( But you can have a camel!

[oyceter]

I've always wanted a camel! I could... keep it in the living room?