Ok, pissed off now

[oyceter]

Yup, this is public; I am that pissed off.

I wasn't going to get involved, I swear I wasn't.

And then...

http://liviapenn.livejournal.com/473180.html?thread=6512732#t6512732

Because what the fucking fuck? Don't fucking throw the RAPE OF NANKING in my face when I am talking about white privilege. I just. I cannot type because WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK?! My grandfather was in the Chinese Navy then, fighting against the Japanese. I have friends with relatives who grew up not speaking Taiwanese because of the occupation. My family left the fucking country and moved to Taiwan because of that war. Don't throw that in my face as a counter to white privilege and just fucking assume I haven't heard of it for some reason; you have no fucking idea.

Comments by people not on my flist are screened; everyone else feel free to comment, but please note I am REALLY FUCKING PISSED OFF about this. Don't be stupid. I will repost asshattery under a filter and mock, and I don't fucking care if you somehow think that's unfair.

Comments

[brownbetty]

Oh what the hell.

That post of Livia's has me making a private filtered list of people whom I can no longer assume are fundamentally decent human beings when it carries any cost to themselves. Happily, the list is still smallish. Sadly, I anticipate growth.

[shewhohashope.livejournal.com]

I never understand (white) people's obsession with how racist East asians are.

Anytime I mention wanting to go to China/Japan/S. Korea/E.Asia it's the same reaction. No! You'll be two feet taller than everyone else and/or they're incredibly racist!

I love it when white people think they can tell you all there is to know about racism. Because racism is such an alien concept to me, having died out in the UK sometime in 1973.

[lady-ganesh.livejournal.com]

I never understand (white) people's obsession with how racist East asians are.

"They do it too, so it's not so bad when we do it." And I think the travel reaction is also part of the same sort of fear comes with homophobia-- not wanting to be treated the way you've treated people as a matter of course.

Following links and found this, hope you don't mind, oyceter.

[ginny-t.livejournal.com]

*shrug* Anyone dumb enough to come here and be stupid deserves a good mocking.

*pets* You were surprisingly polite in your reply. *praises*

[littlebutfierce]

That's really fucking annoying. White folks love to throw in the "POCs can be racist too, so I'm not going to listen to you when you talk about white people being racist, cuz we're all racist! Nyah nyah!" stuff. Ugh.

[littlebutfierce]

Ugh, I went back & read the whole thread that guy started. Headdesking violently now, yay.

[yeloson.livejournal.com]

Reading that has left me with deep fury.

Three times I started typing...

And then I realized he would not understand no matter what.

[mystickeeper.livejournal.com]

This whole thing has left me going, WTF, but I think that this comment made to you goes into a realm beyond WTF.

[kalmn.livejournal.com]

i know seth in person, and, well, he's very well meaning.

please note i am not saying he's thought things through or that he's good at execution. this is me not saying those things.

he's not purposefully an idiot; he's just an idiot.

this does not make it particularly better, i understand, and i do not in any way mean to excuse his behavior.

[veejane.livejournal.com]

Ummmm, yeah. Just, yeah. The logical fallacy is formally called tu quoque, which is Latin for "I know you are but what am I?", and is defined as a situation where the arguer attempts to distract from the weaknesses in his argument by noticing non-germane faults in his interlocutor.

Also known as: FAIL AT RHETORIC.

I've had cause to note that fallacy twice today, and am beginning to wonder if it holds a special place in the hearts of racism-deniers. (Actually, probably deniers of anything, but racism deniers use it with such obnoxious panache.) There's something about saying, "other people do it too" that provides such a balm for the conscience that can't bear to be troubled.

Which is also FAIL AT LIFE, as you have noted.

[the_rck]

I'm sorry you got hit by such offensive idiocy. Beyond that... I have no words.

[coniraya.livejournal.com]

AUUGH! I hate everyone right now. Also the idea that prejudice or racism within PoC groups somehow negates the White Heteronormative Racist Patriarchy we live in is such deep deep bullshit.

[keilexandra]

....wow. Just, wow. How idiotic can people be? (Rhetorical question, though feel free to answer in rant.)

[yeloson.livejournal.com]

Now I'm just making an example of him... (http://liviapenn.livejournal.com/473180.html?thread=6512732#t6512732)

[skywardprodigal.livejournal.com]

Good luck with being okay in response to that.

...I'm thinking his answer was designed to infuriate as well as derail. But I'm cynical. And he seemed to be there just to make a position statement rather than dialogue.

[marzipan-pig.livejournal.com]

I wonder if there is a way to say "Right, whoever has the power tends to use it poorly, that's what we are working on challenging here"? (I mean, a way that would be heard). It's the kind of thing I would work on with another white person I knew in person, but on the internet and with a stranger it's usually too much for me to take on

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

I had to throw up my hands in disgust and walk away.

You know, until I hung out with you, I never noticed how many people apply the reflex defense of "This makes me feel bad, therefore YOU ARE EVIL!!!!". It's ubiquitous, isn't it? So much easier to say "Well, you're just as bad!" than to say "Gosh, that sucks, and I'm sometimes complicit in it."

am beginning to wonder if it holds a special place in the hearts of racism-deniers.

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

Of course it does.

Because if any living person of color, anywhere, in any country, has ever done something racist, then NOTHING ANY WHITE PERSON EVER DOES COUNTS.

Al Sharpton gave us whiteys a free pass forever. So, apparently, did Emperor Hirohito.

[dsgood.livejournal.com]

I'm waiting for someone to adapt the "They're not real Jews, they're Khazars -- and therefore I'm not an anti-Semite" defence to a defence of racism.

Tangent: There are those who are quite willing to agree that there's white racism and it's a bad thing -- but, of course, all white racists are members of groups they don't belong to; and which they look down upon.

[seaya.livejournal.com]

I saw that b.s.

Ugh.

I have nothing constructive to add, instead I'll just say that you showed incredible restraint.

[delux-vivens.livejournal.com]

seriously that shit worked my last angry negro nerve. the fuck?

i agree w/ shewhohashope about how its fascinating to see white folks fixate on racism in asia/asian history.

I will repost asshattery under a filter and mock, and I don't fucking care if you somehow think that's unfair.

now that's censhorship. i think you should unscreen asshattery and let us have at it. but you know, i'm mean and hard that way.

[oyceter]

OMG YES. Like it takes so much effort to change a word that you're happier being racist? *headdesk* I've also started reading through some more comments and posted and am completely appalled by how people are criticizing zvi (!!!!!!). For not being polite! For being too aggressive! I am speechless.

[oyceter]

Seriously! I think I am writing up a post tomorrow about the Japan Fallacy so I can reference it any time someone attempts to excuse their own racism by pointing to Japan.

I am so fucking pissed off at that guy -- not only does he co-opt some of my history to deflect attention from white privilege, he does it in the most condescending way possible. I'm just glad he didn't reply to me, because I probably would have just lost it in Livia's comments.

[oyceter]

Not at all!

And I think the travel reaction is also part of the same sort of fear comes with homophobia-- not wanting to be treated the way you've treated people as a matter of course.

*snort* Yes! Back in college, I overheard two friends talking, one white, one black. The white guy was talking about how he could never go to Africa, oh no, he'd stand out so much and feel so awkward. All this without even connecting back to his friend's experience as a POC every.single.day.

My eyes roll forever, as they did when my white male friends complained about feeling out of place when we did homestay in Japan. Yeah, I'm sorry you feel homesick. On the other hand, the larger part of me wants to rub your noses in it because you discount my experiences of feeling left out all the time and tell me I'm oversensitive! I'm so sorry you have to rescind your white male privilege for two months, whatever will you do?

[oyceter]

Heee, thank you.

I just... GAAAAAH!