Race in Heroes

[oyceter]

verstehen has a post on racial stereotypes in Heroes, and of course, now I have to stick my nose into this!

I have been debating writing a post on race in Heroes off and on for a while -- I say this not to be all "This was my idea first!" because the more people talking about race in Heroes and in general, the better. But I haven't because I didn't want to rain on the fannish squee, because I didn't want a giant wankfest in my LJ, and largely because I am tired and do not want to argue about racism for the six bazillionth time, especially because I am starting to feel like the person who is always bringing race into things. So many thanks to verstehen for posting and getting me off my lazy butt.

So first, a few general notes on the rebuttals to verstehen:

1. Even if all the characters, white and non-white, on Heroes start out as stereotypes, the show can still be racist. Because of the general lack of characters of color in the media and the general prevalence of white characters, stereotypes of minorities have a much larger impact than stereotypes of white people. Also, the power differential between white people and people of color is such that stereotypes of people of color hurt POC more. Whether or not the characters of color transcend the stereotypes enough to counter this is another question.


2. In the tail-end of her post (sorry, I tend to assume fannish people I meet via LJ are female), verstehen writes about race in casting, particularly the issue of casting a Korean actor as a Japanese character (also relevant for Heroes, given that the actor who plays Ando is Korean). I'd like to note that it does make a difference when you mix Asians up, or have a Latin-American actor play a Mexican-American character or have an Indian actor play an Iraqi. It is not the same as casting a white actor as a Hispanic. Again, this is because of power differentials, because of the amount of roles already available to white actors and the scarcity of roles for actors of color. This is also because in the past, if you were a non-Japanese Asian being mistaken for Japanese during WWII, this could have very real, very negative effects on your livelihood. This isn't limited to internment camps and times of war; when being mistaken for another minority group carries that potential weight, mixing these races up during casting is not a lightweight thing.

I say these things as someone who watches Heroes devotedly and loves the show. I personally think that the show has done some very good things with regard to race, particularly by just having more than one recurring character be a character of color, by having several interracial relationships, by having the Japanese characters speak Japanese with subtitles, and by casting a good deal of actors of color in walk-on roles (Linderman's assistant, Niki's psychiatrist, FBI agent last week, and etc.). On the other hand, the show has also done some not-so-great things with regard to race, one of these things being the stereotyped roles.

I do think that Hiro, DL and the Haitian break out of the stereotype in some ways, but not so much that you can point to them and say that they are subverting the stereotype.

Spoilers up through Heroes 1x18

And then you have the only woman of color of any consequence on the show being killed to further the character development of two men, one white. There is Hana, but she's really only showed up in one episode so far.

Another thing that has been really bothering me is that the white characters are currently the ones getting the meatiest storylines. Yes, there are white characters with boring storylines, but since there are already more white characters than characters of color in this show and in many of the shows on TV now, this is less of a problem for the white characters. There is the mass fannish squee about Peter and Claude, and meanwhile, Mohinder, DL and Micah don't do much, the Haitian is mainly a secondary character in Claire's storyline (yes, I do think he has more agency than it seems, but he is not a main character by far), Simone is dead, and Isaac looks doomed and most people don't seem interested in him anyway. Thankfully, there's Hiro and Ando, but they seem to have been stuck in plot limbo for a while. Hopefully that will change with the sword.

I'm concerned about this because I have had a nidgy feeling for a while that the fandom for this show has been centering around the white characters. Please tell me if I am wrong; I am by no means the Heroes fandom expert. I mostly speak from browsing links in some comms, checking interests, checking comments and etc. I am sure that a lot of it is because the white characters are getting the coolest powers -- Peter and Sylar's powers have the most dramatic potential. And a lot of it is because they are getting meatier storylines, especially the Petrelli and Bennet storylines. I, too, like those storylines a lot. But... why is it that once again, the white characters are getting the better storylines and powers?

I also wonder about implicit racism, if we are all so programmed to respond to white characters that it takes an extra amount of "cool" to make us respond fannishly to a character of color. I include myself in this; I've soaked up the same media most people have, almost all (particularly in genre) with white characters. I mean... I don't know. I know for myself, I had to consciously make myself start caring about characters of color, to consciously start noticing them, because I used to look at the Token Minority Character and think, "Too ethnic, brain cannot compute."

I mean, dude! What is wrong with this picture? I am Chinese, and for years and years, I still subconsciously sought out white characters to squee about and admire and lust over. And for years and years, whenever I would ask myself why all my favorite characters were white, I would come up with: "Because they're more interesting (it's not because I'm racist)" and never wonder why the writers wrote them as more interesting, why maybe there weren't even any characters of color to glom on to, why they were the lead and the character of color was the sidekick.

And now, handy-dandy links to race and racism in casting and the TV world we all live in!

- rachelmanija has written up great posts on race and casting (part 2)
- witchqueen has some great posts on race and slash and a guide for white people in fandom.

And if you just click around those pages a bit more, there are tons of links to other discussions on race, racism, cultural appropriation, and fandom. I've also got lots of stuff under my tags and Memories.

Comments

[laurashapiro.livejournal.com]

I think the fannish squee for Heroes seems to center around three characters: Peter, Claire, and Hiro. So we have the Emo White Guy (about whom I could not care less, but that's a rant for another day) predictably getting the most groiny sort of attention -- and the most vids, probably a direct result of him having the most visually interesting screentime, what with the flying and everything.

Claire gets the Buffy/VMars/teengirl power/angst/fangirl identification angle. She is a young woman, and she is very capable, and she is the character with probably the most overall screentime. I tend to ping pretty hard for female characters with agency on any show, and I'm not surprised to see other fans going in that direction. Still, I can't help but wonder if we'd all love her so much if she weren't white.

Which brings me to Hiro, who honestly seems to me to get the most squee on my flist (if not the most in fandom). We *love* him, for he is adorable and determined and powerful and he has a strong moral center. And he's a person of color who mostly speaks his own language, which is awesome. But it's also the source of one of the most problematic things happening on the show for me, which I didn't see verstehen talking about: Hiro's assimilation into white American culture.

Which, yeah, we don't know much. But when we get that one scene with future!Hiro, he is speaking conversational English without a trace of an accent. This bothers me a great deal. I have zero problem with him learning English per se, as it is necessary for him to interact with most of the other people he meets in his travels, and ergo necessary for his overall world-saving mission. But the loss of the accent really threw me, especially since, from what I know about acquisition of language skills, it's extraordinarily unusual to be able to shed all traces of an accent if you learn a new language after young childhood. So it's not likely this would happen, which means they're trying to say something particular about future!Hiro. Future!Hiro projects confidence and authority, Western masculinist ideals that cannot be achieved with even a trace of a foreign accent, apparently. Does an accent imply incompetence? What does *that* suggest about people who weren't born and raised in the US?

I'm curious whether any of this pings for you. It's bugging me a lot, even as I enjoy the show very much, and still marvel every week at how great it is to have interesting people of color on my TV screen.

[oyceter]

I was randomly browsing through ninth_wonders just to get a general impression, and it seems like there's a whole lot of Peter stuff, a whole lot of Claire/Peter or Claire, a good deal of Peter/Nathan, some Mohinder/Sylar, and really not much on Hiro at all, which surprised me. I'm not sure how accurate this impression is, since some of the stories and vids didn't have character info. I wonder if Hiro doesn't get that much fic or vids? I got no clue, honestly. Because he does get a whole lot of squee.

And I do not begrudge Claire the Buffy/kickass girl spot at all; I love her to pieces. But it would be way cooler if a) there were more than one kickass girl or woman and b) if some of them were POC.

Re: Hiro's accent. That's very neat! I didn't think about that. I have such a gut reaction to accents, especially Asian accents, that it's hard to say what I think, objectively. I mean, for me, Chinese accents have always been associated with shame and not being able to communicate; I hated having to talk for my mom here even as I got why she hated having to talk for herself.

I vaguely remember Charlie's bad Japanese accent being communicated in the subtitles, and rachelmanija had a neat comment earlier on about the subtitles for Hiro and Ando making us sympathize with them over their language difficulties. But I think you're right about the accent as an impediment to manly man hero status. And the show's narrative has sort of been supporting that -- Hiro can't communicate with Isaac in the beginning because he can't speak English.

I mean, obviously the language difficulties are real, and I think the writers were trying to get rid of the plot difficulties due to the accent. But it also makes it look like having an accent is this awful thing that cannot be transcended unless you lose it. Which is nearly impossible.

While I love Hiro and Ando, I've had a few twinges at the comedic elements in their plotlines too. I think the audience does sympathize with them, but it's something that could so easily slip over to the "laugh at the foreign people." I don't think it has yet, but it's such a difficult and delicate line to walk.

[verstehen.livejournal.com]

I actually thought I talked about Hiro's assimilation of western culture, at least peripherally (because I wanted to talk more generally about the show, rather than focus in on particular issues I have with particular characters), when I mentioned that people relate to Hiro as a fellow fan. That's what they're tapping into: the inner geek (which has stereotypes all of their own that have long disturbed me, especially when they make devoted fans the butt of jokes). Hiro is what all of us watching wish we could do and be. He's sort of the, hmm, positive reflection of Sylar. He wants to be a Hero, like the comic books. Sylar wants to be Special, like the comic books. That divide between paths to power is what divides them, ethically and morally, between Hero and Villain. (Then you have the fun of the sword plotline, but I'm getting off the point.) I just think the assimilation of western culture has much less to do with him being Japanese and more to do with attempting to connect with the built-in audience for the show and still appeal to the wider variety of viewers; because he talks about Spider-Man and X-men, big comic titles that have long franchise histories with a variety of media sources (the comics themselves, multiple cartoon adaptions, the tv series, spin-offs, the movies), you'll get more of a punch with people who wouldn't touch comics with a ten-foot pole than you would by mentioning comparable (and more stereotypical/realistic, given the circumstances) Japanese anime/manga.

I'm not denying that what they did with Hiro had unintended consequences, because what doesn't!, but I do think in this case it was a marketing decision, so to speak, and not a plot/character-based one.

[liviapenn.livejournal.com]

Because of the general lack of characters of color in the media and the general prevalence of white characters, stereotypes of minorities have a much larger impact than stereotypes of white people.

I can't believe this actually needs to be said. *sigh* If you look at the leads of, say, the 20 most popular fannish shows right now, there's white people as criminals, doctors, lawyers, housewives, military officers, academics, reporters, bureaucrats, librarians, FBI agents, actors, politicians, college students, scientists, etcetera. Adding in one character who's, say, a "chubby Irish donut-eating cop" is stereotypical, yes, but there's *so many other* identities and options available for contrast.

On the other hand, if there's two Indian characters on popular fannish shows (that I can think of) and one of them is Kelly Kapoor from the Office and one of is Mohinder-- then it's a *little bit more* of a problem that he drives a taxi.

Not to mention the problem with stereotyping minorities *in particular* is that, you know, in a lot of places, Mohinder is probably the only Indian person they ever see. If you have a white character who's bad at basketball, most *white people* are probably going to know that's a stereotype. Most people are *aware* that something like "ditzy blonde cheerleader" "donut-eating cop" is storytelling shorthand and/or a cliche, and are aware that they don't define the characters. If you have Mohinder doing something stereotypically Indian, most people watching the show who don't live in urban areas are probably not even going to know it's a stereotype.

This is why people get so upset about depictions of, say, Paganism or Wicca on TV shows, you know? If there was a Christian character on Heroes who said something like, "Oh, Christians believe that umbrellas are the devil's work," people might get upset about the misrepresentation, but I doubt anybody watching the show would actually take that as fact. But if you have Kelly Kapoor from The Office make some ridiculous untrue remark like "Hindus believe that your socks always have to match your shoes," there's a LOT of people who *don't know enough* about Hinduism to realize that's not actually true.

[oyceter]

I can't believe this actually needs to be said.

Two steps forward, one step back? I feel like I should have some sort of crib sheet to whip out to recite the same old same old every time ;).

I mean, yay to actually have two Indian characters on TV and boo to the fact that having even two is so extraordinary as to be a squeeful event.

[em-h.livejournal.com]

I also wonder about implicit racism, if we are all so programmed to respond to white characters that it takes an extra amount of "cool" to make us respond fannishly to a character of color.

This is definitely worth asking, but I do think that in the case of Heroes specifically, it's mostly the fault of the writers for giving the white characters the more interesting storylines -- with the arguable exception of Hiro and Ando, though that was more the case before they went into some kind of plot hiatus.

It's hard to tell, because of the large disproportion in the writing, but they may also have semi-consistently cast stronger white actors (which, if true, speaks to their greater interest in those characters, not to the respective pools of acting talent). The Haitian and DL just haven't ever been given enough to do for us to fairly judge them as actors -- both may be tremendous if given the chance -- but I'm really unimpressed by Mohinder, Simone and Isaac. Again, I'll stress that I'm saying this does involve racism; it involves the casting people not caring as much who they cast in those roles. (I'm just thinking about this because Naveen Andrews manages so consistently to knock it out of the park on Lost -- despite the egregious casting of him as an Iraqi -- enough so that Sayid remains many people's favourite character even though he does essentially nothing for twenty episodes a year.)

Overall, Heroes has achieved what is now the status quo on much Canadian and British TV -- an ethnically diverse cast, with a certain amount of colour-blind casting in secondary roles, but with the real lead parts all played by white people. I guess this is a step up from the US TV status quo of everyone being white except one black guy somewhere, but it's really not an okay place to settle down and preen.

[oyceter]

Yeah, I suspect it's a combination of the writers giving the white characters the better storylines and possibly they get more interest from the fans because as shati says in another comment, Hiro's largely read as a gen character and not paired as often, which means less fic. Which again may tie back to the whole emasculation of Asian men in the media and etc. etc. etc.

Ahhh, fun times...

Overall, Heroes has achieved what is now the status quo on much Canadian and British TV -- an ethnically diverse cast, with a certain amount of colour-blind casting in secondary roles, but with the real lead parts all played by white people.

That's a really good point; that's my quibble with Spooks too.

[em-h.livejournal.com]

BTW, now that I think about the acting ability thing, I realize I'm not too thrilled with Peter et al either -- so that's probably not a factor in fan reaction.

Really the only person who both has clear acting chops and has been given an adequate chance to display them is Hayden Panettiere. Masi Oka's been given too narrow a range, though he's certainly done well with what he's got, and that's presumably part of the reason he's liked by the fans.

On another subject (discussed below), I think that structurally Mohinder is the protagonist. But he hasn't been properly written as such.

[veejane.livejournal.com]

On LJ, almost all of the fannish squee I have seen has been of the icky Nathan/Peter variety. Which is icky. Also a bit of Peter/Claire, which is ICKIER.

However, the Hiro and Ando (curiously, no Hiro/Ando) squee has been loudest in my realtime board. Their dorky enthusiasm is a powerful touchstone like early Willow from Buffy.

Most comments I have seen about Mohinder, prior to this past week, were of the "take off your shirt, please" variety. That he seems to have grown some guts (if not much sense) was a change much applauded, and hope is high that Peter will be able to work the proper mojo on him.

[oyceter]

Yeah, I was sort of curious about the lack of Hiro/Ando! I mean, on paper the relationship looks like the ideal slash pairing, plus Hiro is pretty popular. I suspect it is because Hiro is portrayed as more cute and less sexy, that they cast an actor who isn't traditionally sexy, and that Hiro and Ando are often played for comic relief in moments of sexual tension (Ando's affection for the Vegas showgirl). And I do, of course, think race is involved in those creative decisions.

I have much hope for Mohinder! I did see some glimmerings of Mohinder/Sylar slash, which I expected, and some Mohinder/Peter too.

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

God. I think Hiro's the protagonist. Everything else you said is true, but Hiro, Claire, and Peter are the centers of the show, which is a hell of a lot better than Buffy ever did. (Low praise indeed on the ethnic-diversity front.)

The arcs are
Hiro/Ando/sword
Claire/Dad/Claire/Dad/Claire/Dad
Peter/Peter/Peter with just a squidge of Nathan and Claude *g*

And everybody else is part of the cast of thousands.

[oyceter]

I like to think of Hiro as the center too ^_^. But I am somewhat worried that the show is moving toward a direction in which Peter is the center (he opened the show with the dream flying footage and much of the current plot looks like it will be centered around Peter exploding or not). Of course, the show has pulled off lots of plot twists and turns before, so there is still hope!

[kalmn.livejournal.com]

I think Hiro's the protagonist.

i think we need to poll the writers and find out how many of them have read _snow crash_. that's what i think.

[minnow1212.livejournal.com]

I don't have a lot to add, just wanted to thank you for the post.

[oyceter]

Thank you for reading!

[katie-m.livejournal.com]

There is Hana

Huh, that's interesting--I considered her a white character. (I tend to assume that Israelis who aren't obviously, say, of Ethiopian derivation, are of European derivation, and are thus the equivalent of white South Africans.)

[oyceter]

That's a good point. I think she counts as white like Jews in the US count as white, but also as a minority in the sense that there aren't many Jewish superheroes.

[12-12-12.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I don't think that her history was explicitly mentioned on the show itself--just in the online comics. So if I had just seen her on the show, without knowing her backstory from the NBC.com website, I would have classified her as white.

The same goes for Isaac. I know that his last name is Mendez, but I still don't think of him as a colored character, because he *looks* white. And boy, I probably opened up a whole new can of worms right there. But that's part of why my mind didn't go to racial discrimination when I thought of Isaac's storyline.

[ginny-t.livejournal.com]

I haven't had a chance to read all the comments, but I have 2 things for now:

Hiro is/was getting the most love from my flist. My flist is über geeky, though.

There are 2 things about "the Haitian" that bug me. For one, the way he's just "the Haitian" - wtf?! I know it's mystery, but it bugs me in a twitchy racist stereotype kind of way. The other thing could be a failing of mine. How the heck do they know he's Haitian? Just looking at him, his origin looks like it could be anywhere in the Caribbean or even African American. Why do all the characters who've never heard him utter a word know that this mysterious figure they can barely remember is Haitian? (If that's been cleared up, I apologise - I'm a few episodes behind.)

[oyceter]

Oh, I'm still annoyed that the Haitian doesn't have a name! Argh!

I think (to avoid spoiling you) in a recent episode, they mention something about the Haitian's background, so they do know where's he's from, which is probably how they know. But that was just revealed two weeks ago or so. Not that that explains why people who don't have that information know! I can't remember if Mr. Bennet ever told other people, "Oh, this is The Haitian" (dun dun DUN!).

[matt-ruff.livejournal.com]

I think almost everything about Heroes is stereotypical, and the racial stereotyping is just a subset of a general lack of originality. Don't get me wrong, it's a fun show, but in a comfort-food sort of way -- and when I'm eating warmed-over stew, it's no surprise that the taste is familiar.

Take everyone's favorite duo, Hiro and Ando: does no one recognize our old pals, R2D2 and C3PO? Think about it, a pair of comic sidekicks stranded on a strange planet (America, in this case) and caught up in an epic struggle between good and evil. Even the debate over whether Hiro is the hero gives me deja vu. Remember all the times R2 saved the day? Ever hear the fannish theory that he's the *real* protagonist of the Star Wars saga?

So, y'know, the fact that they've got Indians driving cabs, a black guy who's a criminal, a moody white guy who's a serial killer, and a stern Japanese father who appears to belong to the Yakuza or some variant thereof -- not really that shocking.

[oyceter]

It's true that a lot about Heroes is stereotypical, but a la point #1 in my post, I think the racial stereotypes are much more harmful than the other stereotypes or genre tropes.

[forodwaith.livejournal.com]

I consume Heroes fairly uncritically, so I really appreciate posts like this that make me look at it from a fresh angle.

Especially the anomaly of Hiro: yes, in any other series, he'd totally be the Romantic Lead, played by a handsome actor with washboard abs who had everyone swooning over him and/or writing slash. It's salutory to consider the reasons why that isn't so.

[oyceter]

Hiro is such an anomaly in terms of TV! I mean, I nearly fell over when I saw Masi Oka on the cover of EW, just because it is so rare to see non-hunkish famous people there, particularly someone Asian! Yay!

I am Chinese,

[ender24]

errr, so am i.
at least, ethnic-wise.
I am vietnamese-chinese, who was born and grew up in Germany, and since I am three, I watched German, Hongkong and US TV alike.
Also speak german, cantonese, vietnamese and english relatively fluently
I use to love Dallas and Denver , as much as A Team, McGyver and Star Trek. I love beverly hills as much as any hongkong drama , whether current or historical like Condor heroes .


so you want to tell me, you as a chinese, who I assume grew up in US, never had admire all the chinese stars from Hongkong, never watched all the media from there, never admire them whether actors or singers, (or in most cases both in the same person)?.

speaking of racism, whatever I saw in asian tv has been ten times worse than whatever I see on US tv, but maybe its just me ?
miscasting french people for germans, italiens for spanish, british for greece? making and mocking white people ?
and I don't even start with japanese tv, and the racism there.

maybe I cannot see your point, because I didn't grew up in US.
when I watch US tv and cinema, I still expect to see white people more than any other ethnic, even if statistics and demographics says otherwise.

as much as when I watch hongkong tv, I don't expect them to have tons of white people.