(no subject)

[oyceter]

Sparked by superplin's old post:

I loved Buffy through the earlier seasons and admired her and thought she was great, but I never loved her more than in late season 5 and season 6, when she was depressed and downtrodden and angry. I loved her most when she was overwhelmed by the world, when she was thisclose to the breaking point, and when she sometimes crossed over.

Spoilery through Buffy S6

I saw her on the screen beating up Spike with so much self-hatred, and I saw myself in her.

Well, obviously not beating up Spike.

But I understood her then, felt like I had lived under her skin, felt that horrible pressure when nothing works, when everything is just one more thing that wears you down. And while I love Buffy in the earlier seasons, she's not me then. She's ten times better than me, smarter and faster and braver, and I admire her for that. But I've never had real moments of righteous anger, or of kicking villain butt, or of facing death and going on anyway.

So while I adore Buffy before her mother died, I understand Buffy afterwards.

Comments

[superplin.livejournal.com]

So while I adore Buffy before her mother died, I understand Buffy afterwards.

Exactly. Perfectly put.

I think this is a good example of how one's individual perspective and experiences color perceptions of the show. A lot of people simply cannot relate to a person, fictional or otherwise, who has completely lost their sense of self, meaning and purpose, and who flounders with what others see as the "simple" basic aspects of everyday life. So it makes sense that they would find Buffy perplexing and irritating in the later seasons, if they don't understand this kind of mindset.

It would be very interesting to do some kind of psychological study matching profiles to character sympathies. (Or does that sound too much like Riley in The Replacement? Heh.)

[angeyja.livejournal.com]

And I was thinking last night dozing off that the show seems to have some of the qualities of a mirror.

[rahael.livejournal.com]

I loved Buffy every single season, except S7. I loved her most especially in S6.

I think the militarism thing just squicked me.

[superplin.livejournal.com]

I loved Buffy every single season, except S7. I loved her most especially in S6.
I think the militarism thing just squicked me.

See, I think it was supposed to squick you. It squicked Buffy, too ("I don't want to lead them into war. It can't be the right thing," she tells Wood in Dirty Girls.) My interpretation of the whole "General Buffy" thing was that she was trying to do what she thought was expected of her, trying to conform to the--for want of a better term--classic patriarchal model of battle, against her own inclination and better judgment. Even Giles was pushing her in this direction, because that's all he knew to do. In the end, though, she was forced to admit that it didn't work, and it wasn't right, and she came up with a whole new model.

That's how I saw it, anyway. It's a big part of why I don't hate S7 at all, because this is a theme I can definitely get behind.

[rahael.livejournal.com]

I can certainly see your point - and that's where my confusion comes in, and why I call S7 thematically incoherent.

Because yes, I did think for ages I was meant to be squicked. But it was still a 'Slayer Army' that was instrumental in defeating the FE (I think. I get confused who actually and how actually the FE gets defeated. Spike's sacrifice? - which I agree would accord with the whole turning the military model on it's head thing).

Also, I get confused by Lies, and without re-hashing my qualms about Lies thing, the defence which is offered, that Nikki died an honourable death, the death of the good warrior - if that isn't accepting the military mindset, I don't know what is!

I loved some parts of S7. I really loved these eps: Storyteller. Killer in Me. Selfless. Chosen. I like the themes in them. But to like those themes, I keep feeling like I've got to forget whole portions of the season which seem to fatally contradict it.

And Get it Done really disturbs me because I used to think Slayer Power was a positive. A metaphor for Buffy's imaginative, emotional and intellectual power. And now we learn it is the ultimate act of victimisation, a metaphor for an attempted rape of Buffy, an echo of a successful one.

So one can't just assume that the people who don't like S7, or indeed, S7 Buffy are the same people who though S6 was dreary, depressing and non compelling.

Because I spent the entire of S6 defending episode by episode, defending Buffy ep by ep. Talking about how riveting and emotionally resonant it was to me, and not only that - what an intricate and ambitious storyline that the team accomplished weaving in Buffy's sense of powerlessness and the moral depth ME showed with the Troika storyline

In fact, I was a SPuffy shipper all the while Buffy went out with him, and I stopped when she dumped him, which is my pattern of behaviour for all Buffy's relationships.

[avrelia.livejournal.com]

Also, I get confused by Lies, and without re-hashing my qualms about Lies thing, the defence which is offered, that Nikki died an honourable death, the death of the good warrior - if that isn't accepting the military mindset, I don't know what is!

This defence was offered by Spike, who has some valid points, but he is not necessarily a voice of The Only Truth. Buffy herself feels sorry for Wood – having to grow up without a mother, but not because of her military mindset, I think, but because Nikki was the Slayer – as Buffy is, the Slayer life expectancy is quite short, and Buffy already died twice, she knows the stakes better than anybody else; so it is not a military mindset, it is an acceptance of what comes from being the Slayer. Of course, Buffy at the moment is not in the best emotional place, either.

And Get it Done really disturbs me because I used to think Slayer Power was a positive. A metaphor for Buffy's imaginative, emotional and intellectual power. And now we learn it is the ultimate act of victimisation, a metaphor for an attempted rape of Buffy, an echo of a successful one.

But slayer power has never been portrayed only positive, or only negative. It was a complicated knot of freedom, limits, fun, and responsibilities, and the fact they were given against the will, added complications, not coloured everything black for me.

[oyceter]

Yeah, me too. I think I liked her up till around maybe Showtime, after which the understanding went rapidly downhill. It's strange how opaque she was to me then when she felt so transparent in S6.

[oyceter]

Definitely. I always find reading romance reviews extremely interesting, because I think romances tend to be influenced by the personal, above most genres.

Hee! I think that would be interesting!