Wiscon - Knitting for Boys
Tue, Jun. 13th, 2006 10:27 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
oyceterModerator: Jason Erik Lundberg
Panelists: Jessica C. Adams, Joseph Murphy, Judith S. Peterson, Benjamin Micah Rosenbaum
I really should write up the panel "SF from the (so-called) Third World," except I got a bit bored when the discussion started wandering off to a definition of Magic Realism/the Magical Real, so now, of course, that's most of what I remember.
I also skipped the Joanna Russ interview to go to "Knitting with Boys." I somewhat regret that now, after having read How to Suppress Women's Writing, but on the other hand, I hadn't read anything of hers at the time. Also... knitting!
I can't remember if Joseph Murphy showed up or not. Anyhow, it was a panel in a very small room, and practically everyone in the audience (including me) was knitting something. I found it extremely comforting and immediately dug out my stuff and happily started crocheting, surrounded by yarn on all sides.
None of the panelists quite knew what the panel was going to be about -- I think Benjamin wanted to learn how to knit, but that was sadly quashed, due to the difficulty of teaching people how to knit in a very large room. We had two non-knitters (both of the guys), one knitter who had learned a while ago and re-picked it up lately (Jessica), and one former knitter who was now doing more woodworking (Judith).
Also, I think because so many people in the audience were knitters and because two of the panelists weren't and one had stopped knitting, there was a lot more audience participation. I even raised my hand and said things!
Topics covered were the DIY ethos and sustainability, knowing that you can make things out of sticks and string and the joy in using time and coming out with something substantial and solid.
There was, of course, the talk about forming a community around knitting (and crocheting), being able to talk while you weren't being entirely idle, much like quilting bees or barn-raisings. Someone mentioned something about women feeling guilty about enjoying themselves unless they were also doing something useful, and how that could be viewed negatively, having to have something to do.
There was also mention that apparently men started knitting first, and then it had gotten passed along to women and gotten somewhat denigrated because of that, along with the discussion of the narrow boundary between arts and crafts, and what defined them. I think there was a proposed definition that crafts provided something useful, and so weren't as valued for the aesthetic, while arts provided something blatantly not useful, and as such, were a mark of luxury and wealth. Thankfully, the guy who brought up "men started knitting first" mentioned that he said that not to derail the conversation into "look what the guys are doing!" but as an examination of how knitting was thought of in history in the hands of both men and women and how it changed when it was passed to women. I very much appreciated that.
Both the guys talked about how jealous they were of the people knitting, which actually rather startled me. They said that it was so cool that all these people were there talking, but at the end of the hour, they'd have an additional inch or whatnot of actual fabric, while the guys wouldn't have anything. This then went to a discussion of why more guys weren't knitting. Again, I think while this could have degenerated into one of those "Why aren't the guys included in feminism" type arguments, it didn't. Also, the panel was called "Knitting for Boys." I mentioned that most of the guys I've talked to have this rather condescending attitude toward knitting; they joke about it and sort of see it as a very girl thing. Someone else in the audience mentioned that guys in the army actually picked up knitting to have something to do.
A lot of talk was on how knitting was seen as a very traditional, feminine craft. I commented that that was why I liked it -- I like the thought of doing something so feminine and so traditional and then turning around and knitting uteruses (uteri?), doing it for pleasure for myself, trying to sort of take it back and make it feminist. I think I also mentioned that sometimes the traditional nature of some of my knitting circles drives me nuts (why all the talk of babies?!), but someone also mentioned that people knit things for babies because it takes less yarn and less time.
There was also discussion of why some guys didn't join knitting and the pressure of conforming to gender roles, how it was "easier" for women in a way to behave out of the feminine gender role, but how that also was indicative that no one valued the traditionally feminine and that it was seen as natural for women to want to be like men, but completely horrifying for men to want to be like women. Some of the women in the audience said that they'd welcome guys into their knitting group and that any guy willing to take on the risk of being looked down on for knitting would be interesting. I was more of two minds, especially after several people mentioned guys saying that they'd learn knitting to pick up girls. I can see how guys might say that to other guys to disguise their desire to knit in something more socially acceptable. But I also feel weird about having a guy learn knitting just to pick up girls, like it's a violation of my knitting safe space. Even though sometimes the discussion is so traditionally feminine that it drives me nuts, I also can find comfort in that and in the assumption that talking about such feminine things is ok. And as such, having a male presence there, particularly one not interested in knitting for knitting, would really bug me.
I'm sure there was a lot more interesting stuff said as well, particularly on reclaiming traditional gender roles, which I'm personally interested in doing (probably just because I am very girly) and being able to be traditionally feminine and care about clothes and whatnot and still be feminist.
In conclusion, I need a feminist knitting group. Or three.
Panelists: Jessica C. Adams, Joseph Murphy, Judith S. Peterson, Benjamin Micah Rosenbaum
I really should write up the panel "SF from the (so-called) Third World," except I got a bit bored when the discussion started wandering off to a definition of Magic Realism/the Magical Real, so now, of course, that's most of what I remember.
I also skipped the Joanna Russ interview to go to "Knitting with Boys." I somewhat regret that now, after having read How to Suppress Women's Writing, but on the other hand, I hadn't read anything of hers at the time. Also... knitting!
I can't remember if Joseph Murphy showed up or not. Anyhow, it was a panel in a very small room, and practically everyone in the audience (including me) was knitting something. I found it extremely comforting and immediately dug out my stuff and happily started crocheting, surrounded by yarn on all sides.
None of the panelists quite knew what the panel was going to be about -- I think Benjamin wanted to learn how to knit, but that was sadly quashed, due to the difficulty of teaching people how to knit in a very large room. We had two non-knitters (both of the guys), one knitter who had learned a while ago and re-picked it up lately (Jessica), and one former knitter who was now doing more woodworking (Judith).
Also, I think because so many people in the audience were knitters and because two of the panelists weren't and one had stopped knitting, there was a lot more audience participation. I even raised my hand and said things!
Topics covered were the DIY ethos and sustainability, knowing that you can make things out of sticks and string and the joy in using time and coming out with something substantial and solid.
There was, of course, the talk about forming a community around knitting (and crocheting), being able to talk while you weren't being entirely idle, much like quilting bees or barn-raisings. Someone mentioned something about women feeling guilty about enjoying themselves unless they were also doing something useful, and how that could be viewed negatively, having to have something to do.
There was also mention that apparently men started knitting first, and then it had gotten passed along to women and gotten somewhat denigrated because of that, along with the discussion of the narrow boundary between arts and crafts, and what defined them. I think there was a proposed definition that crafts provided something useful, and so weren't as valued for the aesthetic, while arts provided something blatantly not useful, and as such, were a mark of luxury and wealth. Thankfully, the guy who brought up "men started knitting first" mentioned that he said that not to derail the conversation into "look what the guys are doing!" but as an examination of how knitting was thought of in history in the hands of both men and women and how it changed when it was passed to women. I very much appreciated that.
Both the guys talked about how jealous they were of the people knitting, which actually rather startled me. They said that it was so cool that all these people were there talking, but at the end of the hour, they'd have an additional inch or whatnot of actual fabric, while the guys wouldn't have anything. This then went to a discussion of why more guys weren't knitting. Again, I think while this could have degenerated into one of those "Why aren't the guys included in feminism" type arguments, it didn't. Also, the panel was called "Knitting for Boys." I mentioned that most of the guys I've talked to have this rather condescending attitude toward knitting; they joke about it and sort of see it as a very girl thing. Someone else in the audience mentioned that guys in the army actually picked up knitting to have something to do.
A lot of talk was on how knitting was seen as a very traditional, feminine craft. I commented that that was why I liked it -- I like the thought of doing something so feminine and so traditional and then turning around and knitting uteruses (uteri?), doing it for pleasure for myself, trying to sort of take it back and make it feminist. I think I also mentioned that sometimes the traditional nature of some of my knitting circles drives me nuts (why all the talk of babies?!), but someone also mentioned that people knit things for babies because it takes less yarn and less time.
There was also discussion of why some guys didn't join knitting and the pressure of conforming to gender roles, how it was "easier" for women in a way to behave out of the feminine gender role, but how that also was indicative that no one valued the traditionally feminine and that it was seen as natural for women to want to be like men, but completely horrifying for men to want to be like women. Some of the women in the audience said that they'd welcome guys into their knitting group and that any guy willing to take on the risk of being looked down on for knitting would be interesting. I was more of two minds, especially after several people mentioned guys saying that they'd learn knitting to pick up girls. I can see how guys might say that to other guys to disguise their desire to knit in something more socially acceptable. But I also feel weird about having a guy learn knitting just to pick up girls, like it's a violation of my knitting safe space. Even though sometimes the discussion is so traditionally feminine that it drives me nuts, I also can find comfort in that and in the assumption that talking about such feminine things is ok. And as such, having a male presence there, particularly one not interested in knitting for knitting, would really bug me.
I'm sure there was a lot more interesting stuff said as well, particularly on reclaiming traditional gender roles, which I'm personally interested in doing (probably just because I am very girly) and being able to be traditionally feminine and care about clothes and whatnot and still be feminist.
In conclusion, I need a feminist knitting group. Or three.
(no subject)
Wed, Jun. 14th, 2006 01:24 pm (UTC)I've made a few by experimenting (the website doesn't give a lot of information about how to make the various shapes) and have found that kids love them. I've been thinking about trying to make a mobile using scrap yarn.
I'm a mediocre crocheter. I can make large projects if I use a single type of stitch or a very, very simple pattern, but I can't keep track of anything complicated. I started doing it as a way to keep my hands busy while I GM'd role playing games and went with it over knitting after having a few knitting projects slip off the needles while I was transporting them (plus, I wanted to make a blanket in one big piece. I couldn't see knitting it as an option).
(no subject)
Thu, Jun. 15th, 2006 06:32 pm (UTC)I really like crocheting because of how you can go off in all sorts of different directions, but my problem is I have to actually look at my hands when I crochet, which makes it a craft only for TV shows I'm not particularly interested in. So I tend to knit more by default, just because I can do it and read subtitles (depending on how easy the pattern in), but I'm totally hooked (sorry, bad pun!) on my latest crochet pattern, which is a completely insane lacy cardigan made of cotton thread -_-;;.