Cultural appropriation, pt. 2

[oyceter]

Or, in which I make myself extremely unpopular and get flamed through the roof.

I am limiting this to America because I live here now and because the majority of people who've been commenting seem to be from there. This isn't because I think America is most important (because I don't), but because I need to limit the scope of this somehow. I apologize to those living elsewhere, and I really want to make a more global post about this later, unless people are absolutely sick of me going on and on and on about this.

1. There has been much discussion of cultural authenticity and the problems of cultural authenticity in the comments of my previous post, yhlee's post, cofax7's post, and rilina's post. I feel conflicted about this -- discussion of cultural authenticity is by necessity related to cultural appropriation, but I am very uneasy as to how it has somewhat usurped the discussion of appropriation. This uneasiness is further cemented by the fact that a lot of discussion of cultural authenticity has to do with minority cultures adopting the dominant culture, or questions along the line of "If I can only write about my own culture/race/ethnicity without cultural appropriation, what can I write about?" And from the comments, it does seem like a majority of the people asking these questions are from European/American descent. I am not finger pointing, I swear. I know that's a horribly passive-aggressive way to say it, but I really don't want to call people out because I think it's unproductive, and because I am reading through all four threads and trying to suss out common themes.
   
   Which leads to...


2. Even if there is no such thing as cultural authenticity, the question of cultural appropriation is still present. Furthermore, I am not saying that you can only write about what culture/race/ethnicity that you belong to. Instead, I am saying that the problems inherent in cultural appropriation exist and will very likely exist for many, many decades to come. Also, the very act of writing about another culture, particularly one in which you are a part of the dominant culture that has a history of subjugating minority cultures, that very act is problematic.
   
   It is even more problematic when you look at means of colonization in the past and how much of colonization involves language and schooling and learning the mythos and culture of the colonizers.
   
   This is not limited to white American and/or European culture (see: Japanese culture with regard to Korean culture), but because white American and/or European culture was so often the colonizer in the past few centuries, I think deflecting the issue back to minority cultures avoids the larger issue.
   
   Does this suck? Yes.
   
   Is this fair? No.
   
   Does this mean you shouldn't write about it? No.
   
   Does this mean you have to think about it? No. Feel free to ignore it if you want.
   
   But even if you think you're writing in a vacuum, your readers are not reading in a vacuum. People read in historical context. I read Naomi Novik's Throne of Jade as a third culture kid with the (slight) knowledge of Qing Dynasty China and what happened to Qing Dynasty China, and even if Novik wrote without that in mind (which I don't think she did), that still doesn't make my reading experience any different.


3. And because rilina says it better than me and because I think it bears repeating many times:
   
   "It's very hard for a minority culture to "coopt" something from a dominant culture. I'm sorry if this doesn't seem fair to dominant culture folks (and I'm not saying it's impossible), but I think this is true. When cultural things flow in that direction, it's usually less appropriation and more assimilation." [emphasis in the original]


4. Unpopular thought about assimilation: I think if you are a hyphenated American or an American of color, claiming American culture as your own is problematic. I wish this weren't so, and I struggled against this in college. But the fact is, if your skin color is different from that of people around you, no matter what you think you are, people will very often treat you differently. They may be well-meaning and be very cautious about the subject of race, or they could just say incredibly stupid things, but the issue of race is always there.
   
   We aren't at the point where things are colorblind, and as such, cultural assimilation is problematic. No, I don't think this is fair, and yes, I think it is limiting, particularly when you don't want to feel different and are made to feel different. But again, sadly, things don't exist in a vacuum.


5. As an addendum to this: no, it isn't fair that minority authors are often corralled into minority fiction and said to write about the minority experience. On the other hand, since so few other people are writing about the minority experience, it's a lose-lose situation. I do think that limiting minority authors to the minority experience is very much like limiting female authors to the female experience, but... BUT! seeing the minority experience as a limiting factor can very much be as denigrating as the whole "OMG women writing about female things, the horror!"


6. Of course, if you look like the dominant culture but aren't from that culture, the issues are very different. But since there is much discussion about hyphenated Americans in the other comment threads, I would very much like to leave it out of this particular post and the comments to this post.


7. And now, look, even this post has become about minorities writing about minorities and not about dominant cultures writing about minorities and the inherent problems therein.
   
   I'm sorry, I'm really angry about this, and like rilina says, I think many of the issues here are like feminist issues, in which all discussions seem to go back to the men and femininsts must continue to argue why feminism is still relevant. I know this is a horribly uncomfortable topic, probably more so than feminism on LJ, because most of the people I know on LJ are female, whereas most of the people I know on LJ are not minorities in terms of skin color.
   
   I am highlighting this not because I want to call out people, but because I think discussion of cultural appropriation keeps skirting around this fact. I am highlighting skin color because despite what I'd like the world to be like, it is still a very important factor and one that can divide people at first glance.


8. In conclusion, no one is ever going to tell you that cultural appropriation is ok or that there is a way for a dominant culture to write about a minority culture without these problems rising up. If they do say that, I'm sorry, they're lying or they're from the far future, in which there is no race disparity, no racism, and all nations are on equal economic, political and cultural standing.
   
   This does not mean you shouldn't write about it. Nor does it mean you should write about it. I mean, I personally wish everyone would write about it, or include minority characters, or do something to change things so that the default of a character is not white male. But in the end, it means that even though you may think you're writing in a vacuum, you aren't, and, more importantly, no one is reading in a vacuum. So no matter how you think you should deal with this issue or disengage from it, writing another Euro-centric fantasy is still contributing to the mass of Euro-centric, non-ethnic fantasies out there, and writing a non-Euro-centric fantasy will by necessity run up against these issues.
   
   I wish there were an easier way, but I don't think there is.

Also, does anyone know about critical theory regarding race like Joanna Russ' How to Suppress Women's Writing?

Ok, um, flame away.

ETA: yhlee responds

ETA 2: Most recent link round up that I know of

Also, I am going to answer comments. I just need time to think and time to stop being overwhelmed.

ETA 3: ladyjax on discourse on race

Comments

[the_rck]

Have you looked at deadbrowalking? It's focused more on TV/movie fandoms, but the people there do discuss issues that I think relate to your points.

I'm white, so the world around me doesn't make me pay attention to these issues. I do try to remember to look around and try to see the privileges that I've got, but I'm sure I miss many of them. Something that helped with that came from an anthropology class I took several years ago-- The instructor found a long, detailed list that someone had put together of specific aspects of white privilege. Some of the students weren't pleased to be told that things like not being shadowed in a store by security or not having people assume that they couldn't speak English were privileges coming from the color of their skin. I still have the list somewhere in storage with the other handouts from that class.

At any rate, I was thinking that a similar list of what white privilege means for attending SF/fantasy conventions, for reading and writing SF/fantasy and so on might help those of us who have privilege to see it. A list like that isn't meant to address why things are the way they are or how to fix them but rather to give simple, concrete examples that define how things are. Maybe it's a bad idea... It'd certainly be a lot of work.

[kalmn.livejournal.com]

the carl brandon society might be willing to help with that, or to help distribute it after it's done. (disclaimer, not affiliated with cbs although i mean to become a member as soon as i get paid again)

[the_rck]

I can think of a few things for the list, but I simply don't have the experience to come up with the necessary weight of detail. I remember that the original list included things that seem minor but that add up. The ones I'm recalling right now had to do with 'flesh colored' bandaids and crayons and being able, as a white person, to assume that those would bear some resemblance to my skin tone.

But things for the list... Here, in no particular order, are some cases of white privilege.

As a white person, I can go to a convention and assume that most of the people I see will look like me.

No one will look at me and be surprised that I like fantasy or science fiction or whatever.

No one will look at me and assume that I must be an expert on any history or mythology or country or sub-genre. They also won't assume that I'm not.

No one will assume that I can't speak English.

I can assume that most authors, artists, GoHs and so on will look like me.

I can assume that most professionally published SF and fantasy will be written in a way that acknowledges my view of the world, either by following it or by breaking with some specific aspect of it.

Most cover art will show people who look like me, even if the characters in the book aren't white. But most characters, especially major characters, will be white.

[oyceter]

My favorite author will probably look like me.

I can assume that most books I pick up will have multiple characters of my race.

No one will look to me for validation in a panel on cultural appropriation ;).

Sorry bout the snark in the last one!

But thanks for starting the list!

[the_rck]

I didn't take it as snark, actually, because it's true.

Let's see...

Characters who are of my race in the text will be shown as my race on the book covers.

At the end of stories, I can be certain that many (sometimes all) of the surviving characters will be of my race.

When a book I've read is adapted into a movie, TV series, etc., characters portrayed as my race in the text will be played by actors of my race, probably even by an actor matching the regional type of the character if there is one.

I will have no serious difficulty finding well written books about characters of my race and/or settings and mythologies derived from the cultures and religions of people of my race.

People who see me won't make assumptions about my level of education or probably profession.

If a character is presented as of my race, the plots surrounding him/her won't require him/her to be off my race and, in fact, won't generally refer to race at all.

The actions of a character of my race won't generally be perceived as a statement about all members of my race.

Authors won't include just one character of my race in as window dressing without having that character do something in the story other than just be white.

A villain of my race won't be shown as evil just because of his/her race with the implication that all members of my race are like that.

I will never see a character of mixed race portrayed as less intelligent, morally degenerate or otherwise undesirable (or even more exotic) because of heritage from the white part of the ancestry.

(This is getting ugly. True but ugly. I think I'm going to stop for a while before my headache breaks my skull.)

[littlebutfierce]

Was the list you mentioned from White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack perhaps?

I like the idea of something like that @ cons, but have some trepidation over how it'll fly anywhere but WisCon, alas!

[the_rck]

That's the list. I recognize it. Though I thought it was longer...

It might not fly anywhere but WisCon, but I think it's the sort of thing that's helpful to have around because some people-- maybe not many-- will read it and *think*. Privilege is generally a silent thing, unrecognized by those who have it. It's also something that can be hard for those who have it to look at because looking can make a person feel quite guilty.

(That guilt feels rather a lot like how I feel when I consider how healthy my daughter is when I'm talking to my sister-in-law about her children's illnesses. I don't want my niece and nephew to be sick, but I'm also very glad that my daughter doesn't have the problems that they do.)

[oyceter]

I hadn't before this! I'm very glad to have found it, it's cool!

I won't be so stupid as to say I read the list and thought, "Wow, you mean people don't have to think about such-and-such?" But in some ways, that's how it felt like, only, more... people don't realize I think about such-and-such all the time?

I think your list sounds like a great idea!

[the_rck]

I think that people who don't have to think about such things simply don't. I've run into it with men who don't realize that women think about things like, when walking on the street at night, whether or not that man who just crossed the street towards them is a threat or making sure that, while at a party, they never drink something they haven't had complete and constant control of.

I've also seen it with people who don't have disabilities. Most don't look at a building and consider whether or not someone in a wheelchair could open the door or turn that tight corner or get over the decorative doorsill. They don't look at a neighborhood with no sidewalks (or bad sidewalks) and wonder if they'll be able to walk to the bus stop without injuring themselves or getting hit by a car. (I don't normally use a chair or scooter, but I have used a scooter at GenCon and Origins because otherwise I'd be in agony after the first half hour and unable to do anything much after the first half day. It's enlightening.)