(no subject)

[oyceter]

Ha! Organized Living is going out of business, so I picked up some stuff to get me organized. Well, ostensibly. Alas, organized != clean, especially for me. Mostly organized is essential just because of the sheer amount of stuff I have. *clings to stuff*

I woke up feeling a bit fat today, mostly because I could not wear a skirt I wanted to wear. This is vaguely troubling because I only bought said skirt last year, during a skirt-buying spree that started precisley because I had outgrown my shorts. Ugh. I ended up switching outfits but still feeling vaguely fat all day and feeling guilt about not exercising or anything.

And then I tried very hard to shake myself out of it. It's strange, but a large part of that is due to having a bulimic roommate. I feel like I could so easily fall into that pattern of thought, though I suspect I don't think I would get to the point of acting on that pattern of thought. It's not difficult at all, that's the frightening thing. Back at home, I am a size L and most of the time I can't even find a pair of pants that fits me. My sister and my mother both talk about weight a LOT, and my mom and every other auntie will comment first on someone's weight the second they see them after a while. I mean, it does give me a bit of an ego-boost to hear thta I've lost weight, but just the fact that that does, just the fact that it is pointed out and discussed by every single person... urgh. And it's not just that. It's that when I talk about meeting old friends, one of the first questions my mom will ask is how they look (aka have they gained or lost weight), particularly for people my mom thinks of as overweight.

And right now she is stressing that her emphasis on exercise is for health, but it is hard to have that just in my mind when the weight issue is brought up all the time. Also, just to give people an idea of how it is, my mom has been taking my sister to some sort of weight-loss specialist person who using some suction thing on your skin (hurts like hell) for years now. This is, btw, fairly normal among the people I hang out with back at home.

Having fannisly here constantly talking about the need to be thin and the desire to be thin and the absolute beauty of thinness I think could have easily pushed me toward that end. It wouldn't have been that difficult, given that I tend to start griping about my weight and my size and who is fatter than who whenever I go back home or go shopping. But instead, hearing her talk about these things, and just looking at her -- my gosh. It really scares me. Because here is this really quite beautiful, nice, smart girl who is by no definition of the word fat continually watching what she eats and counting calories and prior to that, doing some pretty unhealthy things to her body just to be thin. And so, in ironic contrast, I think I have been thinking less about weight and thinness than I ever have before, albeit in a very conscious manner.

So I have been very consciously trying not to talk about who is thinner or not as thin as who, or complain about sizes when shopping (a la, I am so fat I cannot wear this, woe!), or to calculate how fatty or non-fatty foods are. And sometimes I have to keep myself from feeling envious when fannishly mentions that she has lost weight, she doesn't fit some of her clothes, would I like them? Because I don't ever want to be in that space of mind where I am calculating things to lose weight, when that's all I can see of myself in the mirror.

It is actually rather difficult, probably because I have had these ways of thinking about my body reinforced for a decade or so by family and close friends and society. But every time I don't fit something when I go shopping, I try to lay the blame at the designers' feet instead of mine; the clothes aren't cut for someone with my body shape. It's not that my body shape is wrong, it's that I just have to find the right clothes that are cut with someone with my body shape. Similarly, if I don't look good in something, the trick isn't to go about and make myself feel bad in the dressing room (all too easy), but to muster up the energy to find something that does look good. Because there are things that look good on me, and so, it can't be my body that is entirely wrong. And when I eat, I try very hard to just think about if the food is healthy or not, not how fat it is or how many calories it has. I do try to eat healthy. Well, I'm not actually sure if it is healthy or not, but I try not to eat overly processed foods, just because I don't think they taste as good. And you know, I refuse to give up desserts and chocolate and yummy things to eat. I am trying much more to eat when I feel like eating, to make sure that I eat regularly, because my stomach complains loudly if I don't. I also try to eat what I feel like eating, so that I don't just munch on things because they're sitting there. I am of two minds about exercise. I know it's good, but if I put pressure on myself to exercise, I tend to start on the whole "OMG I am too fat, look at how much my stomach sticks out and my thighs are too wide and my arms are flabby and why am I not skinnier," which is not a nice place to be.

I think I am writing this all down here not to get reassurances as to not being fat -- objectively, I know I am not fat. Ok, maybe I don't fit some of my clothes from earlier, but you know what, it happens. I refuse to angst over that (well, with the exception of having to buy new clothes, which is honestly annoying, but the same would have to happen if I lost weight too). But "objectively" doesn't really cover that little voice in my head that tells me I am fat, that I look awful, etc. So I am trying instead to change aforementioned pattern of thinking so that I don't think of things in terms of "thin," and so that I don't think in terms that equate thin with beauty or with happiness. And part of it is watching fannishly gain and lose weight; just the very process of actually deciding on a weight to be and working toward it is not quite understandable to me, nor do I particularly want it to be. I think it does tend to make me not such a great listener sometimes (or often), because I can't sympathize with it, and I am rather afraid to let myself sympathize it. I know how easily I could fall into that mindset, and that's somewhere I really, really don't want to go. And so, while I can admire the way Angelina Jolie looks on screen, I am trying to do so without comparing her to me -- she has a different lifestyle than me, possibly a different body type. Also, I probably look cuter in fifties clothes than she does because I have hips, so there! Neener ;).

Comments

[cychi.livejournal.com]

I am totally not at good weight (aka unhealthy) for my height, but i've never really thought of it in terms of being "thinner" or "smaller" I guess that's mosly becuase of the way my frame is built. I suspect that I really only have two choices, fat, or buff. I know from my middle school/ highschool years when i was a mere 130-135lb that my face will always have that chubby roundness that annoys me, and my nose will always be that nobby thing that holds up my glasses. I guess that is okay, I mean, It's me right? Natural is definitely better than plastic surgery. I really do think that everyone has a style suited for what ever their dimensions are, they just need to find it. Sometimes, though this is a bit more treasonous, I think that sometimes all people need to do is smile more.

[oyceter]

*nods* You know, I haven't seen you for a while, but to be honest, it really doesn't matter to me. I miss talking to you!! Call me! Hee, and those are things that don't change, no matter what you look like, so there ;).

And I guess I tend to think that if someone is confident enough, they can pretty much pull of anything with regards to clothes or style or the like.

[chi-zu.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean re: familiy fixating on weight! I have it lucky in that my family does it way less than others, but they do a lot of the things you talk about. Drives me nuts, because normally, I don't think about weight, it's not a big deal to me and they won't stop talking about it. I say this honestly too, I somehow managed to get to where I am today without being weight conscious. But I know how destructive it can be, so it drives me crazy when my family filters everything through that lens.

I've never really gotten the whole looking in the mirror and placing blame on myself instead of the clothes thing. Intellectually I do, but fortunately, I can't recall ever having felt that way. Because it's not my fault I was born a certain way. And the way clothes are so cheaply made and poorly constructed, of course I don't look good in everything. Thank God, or I would buy way more clothes than I already do! Take it from someone who makes/fits/buys clothes for a living, those numbers on the sizes mean very little. The garment industry doesn't build for people, they build for a size 6 dummy (supposedly the average size) and grade up or down to get other sizes. So not only are clothes not being cut for people, half the time they're not even built for a corresponding dummy size! It's all a huge crapshoot. Pile on top of that the fact that some lines just won't ever be flattering, and that means a whole lot of clothes that won't look good.

To put things in perspective further, when I draft a pattern for someone from scratch, I take an entire sheet of measurements. I then plug them into a drafting system based on proportions to come up with the final pattern. There's also some eyeballing involved based on what I've observed of the person. Then I cut a mock-up in muslin and fit that on them. I'm a good drafter, but there are always tweaks to be made. This is a custom-drafted pattern to their specific measurements made by someone who knows them. And it still needs adjustment. The fact that clothes off the rack fit us at all is something of a miracle!

And anyone can look like a knockout, it's all in how you carry yourself and what you do with what you have. I've seen conventionally attractive actresses screw themselves over by slouching and feeling insecure and some of the strangest looking people become stunning when they put on the clothes and the make-up and the persona. Trite, but true.

[oyceter]

Er, pardon me for a little while I completely ignore all your very good intellectual points and just squee over the fact that you make clothes!! So cool!! You know about clothes!! Hee hee, sorry. I like paying attention to how I look in terms of clothes, but for that, I like thinking of it as more finding lines that flatter my figure and fabrics and colors and patterns than I like, not so much making sure I am a certain size so that I can fit into clothes.

Also, what you say about the dummies is so true! Grr. Ergo, the difficulties of finding clothes that fit me. I swear, no one these days makes clothes for people with hips. I have hips! I swear, there are other women out there who also have hips! Cater to us, damnit!

The way you put it, the fact that anything fits does seem like a miracle! Wow, I totally want my own tailor now.

OMG, do you have lots and lots of costuming books and everything? I so envy you!

[chi-zu.livejournal.com]

Hee hee! It IS fun to make clothes! The more we talk about it the more I want to go shopping with you. It's like I want to do experiments, find things that look awful off the rack then fit them to make them cute! Shopping is all about having an open mind, and also imagining different ways to put things together.

The funny thing about your hip conundrum is that I have the opposite problem sometimes. Like, Old Navy cuts some serious hip curves into their pants and I have a hard time finding pants there that lie flat against me. Not that I don't have hips, I just don't have the hips that they cut for.

I actually don't have a lot of costuming books, I'm trying to build up my library. But I have access to my designer's books which are fabulous! They're so much fun! Clothes are fascinating. Like corsets? Amazing wonders of construction! Very difficult and mysterious, the elusive corset.

I like telling you about clothes, you get so excited! heh.

[oyceter]

Oooo, I would love to go shopping with you! I love going shopping and looking at clothes and cuts and colors and what's in fashion (I swear, the fifties thing was in a few months ago, but for some reason everything I look at is Bohemian now). It's a lot more fun for me when I'm just having fun instead of getting frustrated as to why things won't fit.

You can probably tell that my wardrobe is very strange indeed ;). But you know, if I want to wear a long Indian skirt sometime, I will, and who cares if I look odd!

I think it's so funny about the hips thing! One of the things that strikes me more and more, talking with women, is that no one really seems to like their bodies. I mean, I can pick at flaws in my figure for ages, but other people will want the same things I think are flaws, and vice versa.

Corsets are so cool. I really, really want one. Someday I shall get myself one and not know when or how to wear it, but who cares!

I like talking to you about clothes too! It's so neat and I'd love to just sit and watch you design stuff and talk about seams and things! (I learned about seams and cuts and stuff from obsessively reading Talbot's catalogues when I was little....)

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

Go you! It's hard to resist that pervasive societal sense of what's normal but it sounds like you're doing the right thing for your mental health.

Are there forms of exercise that don't start that mental treadmill for you? I find dancing doesn't, for me, and yoga and swimming rarely.

FWIW I am actually fat - 280-something pounds - and quite honestly, it's not such a terrible state that people need to devote so much energy to worrying about avoiding it. The clothes have gotten Much Better. I still go dancing, people still find me sexy and flirt with me and date me and love me. For every idiot who stops me on the street to tell me I'm fat, there must be 20 who've stopped me to tell me I look good that day. My health is fine (though now I've turned 31 there's a couple things I want to work on before they become problems.)There's nothing I can think of that I could do as a thin person that I can't do as a fat person, except buy a sufficiently sturdy wide-tread stepstool. And I think I'll cope. :)

[oyceter]

I am going to work harder on finding exercise that doesn't start the mental treadmill. I think part of it is just thinking of it as exercise and work (also, I am a lazy bum, and the idea of having to get dressed and shower later annoys me). I really do want to take up some sort of dancing class, because I love dancing and enjoy it for itself.

*hugs* I think you are quite cool! One of the things I really like about the internet is that you get to know people before actually seeing what they look like. Of course, there are then stereotypes based on spelling and language and the like, but it is a bit of a refreshing different from RL.

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

I'm really loving my belly dancing and Regency dancing, different as they are, because they don't require a partner.

And thanks! Slight disclaimer to my previous statement, though -- my primary social worlds are fandom, the BDSM community, and somewhat poly and medieval recreation circles -- all about as fat friendly as you could hope to find. I don't mean to undermine the experience of all the people out there who are made socially miserable because of their weight.

To tell you the truth if I could take the Miracle Pill and be thin, I probably would, in spite of all the work I've done on self-acceptance. It would help my knees and back and risk of diabetes, and also spare me having to deal with the perceptions and stuff like the fact that fat people are less likely to be hired and make less money. But I found the whole diet cycle to be immensely draining and soul-destroying, as well as ultimately unproductive.

I do know people who can diet with a healthy mindset, but I wore those grooves connecting diet = self-loathing = deprivation so deep in my brain in adolescence that I don't think, at this point, I personally can separate them -- or that I want to go to the immense trouble of trying.

What I am finding, though, is that I can add stuff without the same baggage as comes with subtracting stuff -- add a little exercise even if it's not as much as They Say I should do, add some more fruit and veg and olive oil and fish without denying myself whatever else I want to eat. So that's what I'm trying to do.

[oyceter]

Heh, yes. I think my goal would be to get to the point (self-image-wise, not weight-wise) so that if someone gave me the Miracle Pill, I would say no. But yes, very difficult, particularly with various social pressures and not so great medical things. And I do believe that people can diet with a healthy mindset, but more often than not, I've seen people say they will diet with a healthy mindset and basically slip into a not-really-healthy one.

And... dude! Regency dancing?? That is so cool! Ditto with belly dancing!

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

That makes sense (re not taking the pill). In an ideal world I'd be there too, but for now I'll settle for the fact that I never waste time imagining it anymore unless in a discussion like this.

but more often than not, I've seen people say they will diet with a healthy mindset and basically slip into a not-really-healthy one.

nodsnodsNODSNODS Totally with you. I respect the people who can resist that, but I think it's really hard and most of the support programs for dieters tend to play on some of the most problematic aspects for reinforcement. I swear to god I think there's a market for "diets for the fat positive", but how you'd go about that I have no idea.

[pimp] Try the belly dancing! It'll make you feel good! [/pimp]

And Regency too of course, but that's a little harder to find.

[oyceter]

Yeeeaaaah. In general I tend to be rather negative toward dieting, just because most of the people I've seen diet eat things like an apple for lunch or don't eat dinner, or other things that don't seem to make much common sense to me.

I shall try belly dancing! It looks quite exciting!

yepyep

[(Anonymous)]

that is a wonderful mentality that you are aspiring for. i've never focused on my actual weight. i guess to me, it's like, "who cares! muscle weighs more than fat anyhow." whenever i'm reminded that it's time to exercise, it's usually more because i've been feeling "unhealthy" and not "fat." and by "unhealthy," i mean that my body feels out of wack....i'm lethargic all the time, i can't finish a flight of stairs without running out of breath, i can't lift my textbooks properly (yes, very sad, i know), etc...

(anlee)

Re: yepyep

[oyceter]

Hee, yes, I hate feeling out of shape! And while I am trying to get to the point of ignoring my looks, I am still trying to listen to my body (mostly because if I ignore it, my body gets really, superbly grumpy at me). Aka, get enough sleep (or else sleep like crazy on the weekend and be slightly sleep-deprived on weekdays, which is livable right now), eat regularly, eat things that don't disagree with me, etc.

[rachelmanija.livejournal.com]

I think you have a very healthy attitude. And frankly, I agree with you and I disagree with fannishly on the subject (not that I don't support you as a person, fannishly), and I think you should try not to get into her mindset on that subject, as I think it's deeply unhealthy, mentally and physically.

It can be hard to deal with family and friends telling you things you think are wrong even if you're really sure they're wrong-- my family, for instance, has completely different values from me. But you know, no matter how smart they are and how much you care about them, they're still wrong.

Regarding exercise, my feeling is that it works best and is easiest to stick with if you think of it not as exercise, but as an activity which you enjoy. That is, dance or yoga or martial arts or rock-climbing or swimming or even (for some people) aerobics or weight-lifting are fun things to do. But I think you have to find a physical activity that you like for its own sake, rather than dragging yourself to the gym out of a sense of exercise obligation.

[rachelmanija.livejournal.com]

That is: do physical things for the sake of doing them, not because they'll make you lose weight. For one thing, they won't necessarily make you lose weight, especially if you're not fat to begin with. I went from doing no physical activity to training maniacally seven hours a week. I became stronger and more fit and energetic and happy, but I didn't lose a single pound.

[oyceter]

I'm still trying to sort of figure out the balance between keeping an open mind and still sticking to what I believe in, and it's so hard to tell sometimes when to be open and non-judgmental of other points of view. I suppose the trick is to disagree without being judgmental.

I'm still trying to find something that I think of as fun and not as exercise, but I think my brain equates anything that mean getting off the couch as squicky ;). I need to train brain to remember that activity can be fun!

[rachelmanija.livejournal.com]

Dancing? Martial arts? Hiking?

[oyceter]

Dancing! I need to find a place to take dancing! Martial arts I am slightly lazier about, having drifted in and out of karate, kendo and aijutsu (I think... the one with weapons, anyhow) for about half a year each -_-;;.