Critser, Greg - Fat Land: How Americans Became the Fattest People in the World

[oyceter]

I am not quite sure what to think of this book, particularly after I've read The Obsession. While I agree about things like not marketing fast food in school and making healthier foods more accessible to people with lower incomes, there are some arguments of the authors that bother me a little, except I can't quite figure out why.

The subtitle of the book pretty much summarizes what Critser is looking to convince the reader of, and in one of the chapters, he writes of loosening dietary restrictions, with the increasing trend of dieting books that say "it's ok to be fat" and argue that there are ways to lose weight without giving up high fat foods (Atkins!). He also includes bits like how clothing companies change sizes around so that size 8 gets larger and larger to make people feel better, as well as diet books that claim less exercise can be done to lose weight. This is the part that I was touchiest about. I don't enough about the science and the trends to know about what levels of obesity are dangerous to one's health, and it does seem to be a rather contentious topic these days. And Critser writes with a tone of voice that seems to condemn people for not just wanting to eat everything they want without exercising, but also with the viewpoint that people should really watch their weight.

Hrm. I mean, I agree... to an extent. I'm 130 lb. and 5'4". I say this because sometimes I have no idea if that's fat or not. This is because for pretty much as long as I can remember, my mom has been telling me to exercise and watch what I eat and lose some weight, with the exception of freshmen year, when I dropped to 115 lb., looked (according to my sister) slightly skeletal. I am really sick of being told to watch my weight and to watch what I eat. I know all the health reasons, etc. etc. etc., but for once, I would like to go home and have the first thing people say to me NOT be about my weight! Every single time I go home and meet people, invariably one of the first comments will be whether I have gained weight or lost weight. Not just with my family -- with almost every single family friend or person who has seen me the previous year. It drives me crazy. The culture of sitting around at the table and pretending that you have to watch what you eat when there's perfectly tasty food in front of you drives me crazy too. I like food. I hate it when people watch me scarf down a giant sandwich and say "wow, I can't believe you eat that much." I don't know anyone who is happy with their weight and doesn't want to lose some.

I mean, I can't say about everyone, but for me, Critser's argument that people just want to eat all they want with no guilt and no need to exercise feels like the flip side of this constant barrage of messages saying you must be skinny, you must be skinny, if you are not skinny, you are lazy and ugly and worthless, which is a horrid message.

On the other hand, I do agree with other points that he makes about the cheapness of fast food and the easy accessability of it and other not-so-nutritionally-wonderful foods to kids, especially in schools. I don't know enough about his entire chapter on the evils of obesity on the health to comment. But in general I figure it's usually better to eat stuff fresh. I don't know. I'm not really a nutritionist. I just eat stuff that tastes good, and I've found that for some reason I can start tasting this chemical aftertaste with some food, and so I've been avoiding those. And I do agree about the portions, because compared to Taiwan portions, portions here are huge! Of course, I won't complain that much because it means I can take home half of my lunch and eat it for dinner because I'm cheap.

Not much of a conclusion from me, except that I wish I knew more so that I comment more in depth on the issues that Critser raises.

Comments

[sophia-helix.livejournal.com]

Hm. I read about half this book, really enjoying it, then stopped for some reason. I think now that it was because I loved the parts *explaining* about how America has become a place that's easy to be fat (esp. the parts about corn syrup, how difficult it is to be poor and have a healthy weight, etc.), but then it just started slipping downhill to a less understanding and more condemning viewpoint.

And, while I know this doesn't carry much weight with anyone at all, I certainly wouldn't even consider you overweight. You seem like a perfectly nice size, all height-weight proportional and leaning towards slender, and I wouldn't say that anyone at 130 and 5'4" was fat anyhow. I'm your same height, and 140 is my goal weight to feel fine, wiht 130 a sort of "dream weight" I haven't been at since junior high. So, in summation, not fat. :)

[oyceter]

Yeah, the whole thing about corn syrup and associated ingredients that are pretty bad for you but are in almost anything because it means that food can be preserved for longer and therefore be more profitable was rather scary. And also rather gross, once one stops to think about it.

Re: the weight thing, it is so weird because in my head I figure I am fairly healthy and whatnot (ok, maybe I should exercise more because I am getting out of breath climbing the stairs...), and in general I feel I have a good attitude toward food, but there are times when I can always find someone thinner and better looking than me.

It also doesn't help that when I go home, everything changes dramatically. I wear L or XL back in Taiwan, and I am definitely one of the more heavy-set girls there of my height. It is really frustrating not being able to buy pants there at all or to always have to ask for the biggest sizes. And people there are much more vocal about weight things, so salesladies will comment on whether or not you can fit something! Grrrr. Very different. Very frustrating. Also very schizophrenic bouncing from one standard to the other for me.

[livinglaurel.livejournal.com]

Fast Food Nation IIRC has some interesting pts about cheapness of fast food and obesity among the poor -- esp adolescents, esp esp African-American ones (notice what race the people in those ads for the "Ginormous Burger King McOmelette" or whatever the hell that HUGE new sandwich is called are). Just from my own experiences (much more shallow) with poverty, poor people tend to buy cheap food in bulk because you spend less and it lasts longer -- if three frozen pizzas are on sale for five bucks, you'll get six because that's dinner for a week for ten dollars. And so on. Also wrt portions -- while T (one of the few Americans I've seen do this) usually eats abt half the food he's served and saves the rest for later, there's that American "Clean Plate Club" mindset that you have to eat EVERYTHING and if you don't you're somehow morally unfit (my grandparents tried to pull this on me a large number of times).

Not to get all in yr personal space, but according to the BMI (just a number that shows body weight adjusted for height) calculator, which I tend to trust more than anything (altho even that can still be a bit faulty), five feet four and weighing 130 means you have a BMI of 22.3, which is FINE. That's even below the "normal" range (overweight is considered to be 25.0–29.9). Anyone who tells you to watch what you eat and that you eat too much is NUTS, as well as just plain rude. Five-four and 115 is a BMI of 19.7, which is indeed close to underweight (that's considered to be below 18.5 altho I think that's too LOW -- I'm six feet and when I weighed 145 lbs I was drastically underweight, and my BMI was 19.7 then too, and I was amenorrheic). The average American woman is supposedly 5'4" tall and weighs 140 pounds, so you are BELOW that (and that is a BMI of 24, just under normal, 18.5–24.9).

So you know, if you wanted to, you could politely say "I am healthy and don't have any major health problems and my Body Mass Index is well within normal parameters for my height, so please don't worry about how much I weigh." Because noone should be pulling that stuff (well noone should be pulling that kind of stuff on anyone regardless of weight. But in yr case it REALLY sounds just like BS).

[yhlee.livejournal.com]

I think Paul Campos' (?) The Obesity Myth dives into the statistics that were used to create the BMI tables, and they are deeply problematic; the argument requires too much data (and more memory than I have!) to recapitulate here, but it's worth a look. One of the most appalling things was that even with the data gathered by the people making the recommendations, mortality increased more at low BMIs and actually dropped for some of the "somewhat overweight" categories. (http://www.livejournal.com/users/yhlee/221322.html#cutid2)

Other interesting books on that front: Marion Nestle's Food Politics, which is incredibly depressing with regards to food recommendations/regulations in the US (one of my friends who's a FDA inspector handed it to me); and Gary Nabhan's Why Some Like It Hot has some incredibly suggestive material on how different populations have different optimal diets and different reactions to the same foods in like quantities; that last is unfortunately a very fast read, written for the very general reader, but there's a pretty extensive bibliography I mean to trawl someday.

And I wish people would take build into account. My build is sort of sticklike, which holds for almost all the women on my mother's side. (No women on father's side available for comparison.) Joe is a bit shorter than his brother, and weighs fairly less, because Joe inherited the lighter build of his mother's side and his brother is a bulkier, more solidly built guy who bred true to the big German stock or somethiing on their father's side. ^_^

But truly: if you can do the things you need to do without getting horribly out of breath, and you feel fine and at balance, and you aren't having medical problems, for goshsake just enjoy your food.

(I have the opposite problem with relatives to you, oyceter, by the way. Every time--except when I was pregnant!--I return to Korea, the first thing they say to me is, Mallatta! "You've lost weight"/"gotten skinnier"--literally "dried up." And then they try to stuff me with food, and I end up not eating entire portions because I become ill if I overeat, dammit.)

[livinglaurel.livejournal.com]

Isn't Paul Campos a law professor? Has anyone debunked the BMI tables who has an M.D. or some medical experience? Just curious....

[yhlee.livejournal.com]

I believe that's correct. But he uses their own data on the BMIs, and I'm not sure the M.D. is necessary to, pardon the expression, do the math in that instance. My two zeni.

[oyceter]

Ook, Fast Food Nation made me never touch a fast food hamburger ever again. Well, with the exception of In 'N Out. I still eat Taco Bell or KFC very, very occasionally, but in general, I am quite grossed out by fast food now. I mean, uck!

I totally get the cheap food = bad food. I'm trying to keep to my budget now, and I am finding that I am eating a whole lot of microwave stuff and mac and cheese and TV dinners.

I technically know that being my weight is ok for my height, but I still feel fat sometimes. It's really frustrating. Well, part of it is a strange standard, because while I'm considered a fairly good weight here, back at home in Taiwan, the girls are stick thin and I'm size L. And the whole culture there is just much more concerned with weight or genetically more disposed toward thinness, or I have no idea, but it's still really frustrating not being able to find any pants that will fit me there.

[livinglaurel.livejournal.com]

I did eat fast food for a bit after FFN, but felt v queasy abt it. You could probably have a whole paper's worth of pre- and post-FFN eating experiences....you know, there were at least a couple of posts over in theferrett's LJ (don't know if you read him) just recently about eating better, how organic doesn't necessarily mean expensive, how people try to eat cheap yet healthy, and so on -- a lot of v helpful stuff in there. We also eat a lot of nuked junk, mainly because T works v long hours and I get depressed a lot and it's v easy. The (hu)man-hours involved in selecting the food, preparing the food, cooking the food, and cleaning up after the meal are often just too much to deal with when you can sling in a handy cardboard box that doubles as cooking and serving container....

I wonder if there are women in America (or indeed, in the world) who feel thin -- who look in the mirror and think, "Yep, I'm thin -- perfectly happy here." Not many of them, probably (and if there are, maybe they worry they're too thin). And not being able to find pants in a country, oh, man....

[oyceter]

I think the whole feeling thin thing is rather like depression -- no matter what the reality is, no matter how good you look or how good your life is, there will be times when all you can do is look in the mirror and feel horribly fat or depressed. I've never met anyone who was so satisfied with their weight that they didn't want to be thinner, and this includes people who are half my size, I swear.

*sigh*

[livinglaurel.livejournal.com]

Absolutely -- I think it's part of the crystallized madness of the culture. And then of course I do have skinny friends who want to be curvier....how many women are honestly satisfied with their natural shapes?

[livinglaurel.livejournal.com]

I don't mean to clog up yr journal with whacky comments, but another thing that fascinates (well, infuriates) me is the HUGE double standard wrt overweight women and overweight men -- as Linda Ellerbee remarked when she was told if she wanted to anchor a network news program she had to lose 20 lbs, "I doubt if anyone ever said that to Charles Kurault." Right now there are a whole host of television sitcoms (not that I watch the damned things) with overweight or rather schlubbish men who are married to absolute knockouts -- and yet Kirstie Alley, who doesn't look THAT fat to me (I mean, OK, yeah, she looks overweight. But not morbidly obese) is in some show called "Fat Actress" about what it's like to be, a, well, fat actress. And fat actresses mainly get comic parts....I still remember Camryn Manheim holding up her Emmy yelling, "This is for all the FAT GIRLS!" Fat men sort of fade into the woodwork, unless they're morbidly obese, because it's culturally accepted. Fat women, because of their excess of flesh, are _more_ visible -- and yet sexually invisible most of the time -- because our cultural norm is that overweight women are valueless, even tho the gap between the cultural "ideal" (a model who is six feet tall and 120 lbs) and reality (most women are five feet four and 140 lbs) is ever-widening.

((sigh)) Sorry, I'll now go off to froth and foam elsewhere....

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

Yeah, in Jossverse fandom David Boreanaz and Nick Brendon did get the odd snarky remark for putting on weight dramatically over the course of the shows, but I don't think they'd have been still employed if they were female.

[livinglaurel.livejournal.com]

Whereas there were all those _whack_ comments about how fat Amber Benson was -- and she wasn't fat at all, just _curvy,_ and I thought she looked good in comparison to the by-then stick-thin SMG and Alyson Hannigan. wtf is up with a supposedly feminist show where the heroine lead looks anorexic?

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

One of the many things for which I despise the all out Marti-bashers is that MN apparently insisted that Amber be cast when others (allegedly Joss) thought she was too big.

[livinglaurel.livejournal.com]

IIRC he was looking for someone even THINNER than Willow, AB read, and MN said she really had the chops, and convinced them to take her on -- even tho she didn't fit their physical ideal of the role. I do have this theory abt how MN and JW get to stand in for fannish parentage and Joss becomes the Good Absent Daddy while Marti is the Bad Present Mommy, but it's long and nightmarish.

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

I do have this theory abt how MN and JW get to stand in for fannish parentage and Joss becomes the Good Absent Daddy while Marti is the Bad Present Mommy, but it's long and nightmarish.

Oh, that's fairly obvious. I thought that the failings of BtVS7 and AtS5 would have stopped people from putting everything bad in BtVS6 down to Marti, but it seems like quite a few people still hold her personally responsible for Buffy/Spike not going the way they hoped when they wrote smoochy Spuffy stuff before the ship was canon.

[livinglaurel.livejournal.com]

I thought that the failings of BtVS7 and AtS5 would have stopped people from putting everything bad in BtVS6 down to Marti

You would think (particularly Buffy S7).

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

When I had been ill and was clinically underweight, people were still telling me not to try to gain the weight back. I've said this elsewhere, but it just seems like an important data point about how sick people are about weight: even when your doctor has said, yes, you are not only under the recommended range but under the range your body type should weigh, gain weight, the support for it is lacking in many quarters.

There is no evidence whatsoever that allowing people to buy clothes that fit them will encourage them to stay overweight or obese. None. It's just nonsense. I object to vanity sizing myself on the grounds that it has vanity sized me out of clothes at more than one store, and on the grounds that when I say to my mom, "The 4s are too big here," she gets upset with me, not the clothing manufacturers. But I don't think it makes anyone too complacent to lose weight. Fat people know they're fat. It's just that thin people suspect they're fat, too.

[oyceter]

Oh, that is really annoying! I have to fight that urge myself -- I lost about five pounds during the break up because I was depressed and miserable (that's how I lost the 15 in college too), and a big part of me wanted that and liked that and wanted to keep it off, even though it was lost in a very unhealthy way. I didn't diet or anything, I just completely lost my appetite and the smell of food would turn my stomach, which is really disturbing if you like food as much as I do.