Martin, Judith, and Jacobina Martin - Miss Manners' Guide to a Surprisingly Dignified Wedding

[oyceter]

I read this because despite having been to several weddings, I can still never quite figure out what to do/what you're supposed to do. This is even more confusing now that I am part of sister's wedding party and therefore have things to do that extend beyond the day of the wedding.

This book was written with the notion that today's weddings have now become massive, expensive events in which the bride selfishly makes demands of everyone because it's "her day." I have, as I'm sure some of you expected, some issues with this. Given that this is Miss Manners and not a book on gender roles and social commentary, I'm okay with the fact that she doesn't unpack this more, but I'm also disappointed that it simply goes with this cliched view of weddings and brides. This is not to say that selfish brides don't exist, but I think the narrative of the selfish bride handwaves how much USian society pressures women to view their wedding day as The Biggest Day of Their Entire Life, how so much of the traditional female narrative is being male person's noun (brother's sister, father's daughter, son's mother, etc.) and this is still within that frame but at least focuses on the woman, how there is so much pressure for the bride to plan the whole damn thing herself with the groom supposedly not having any input or help, and etc. So yes, selfish brides exist, but on the other hand, condemning them for selfishness while ignoring all these other factors annoys me.

Also, as you have probably noticed, I keep using the terms "bride" and "groom." This is because although the book acknowledges same-sex marriages, it's very much written with heterosexual pairs in mind. Miss Manners is supportive of same-sex marriages, but the way the book is written, it's very..."things don't exist unless readers bring them up." There's a very standard narrative in place, and the book does not break out of it unless prodded to do so. This was an excellent example for me of authors who probably want to be inclusive but are unintentionally exclusive because they don't think outside the norm.

For example, I kept reading advice on how good brides who are not selfish will take their parents into account and such. Which, yes, great if you have a good relationship with your parents. Not so great otherwise. It's also very whitebread American culture, despite Miss Manners' acknowledgement of other cultural traditions.

I was particularly irked by her annoyance at people who solicit funds and money at bridal showers and weddings and etc. One reader made a point that sometimes it is cultural, but the only response was that if the bride's mother was writing to Miss Manners about it, obviously it wasn't cultural enough. And I am all for her aghastness at people's behavior, except in variations of my culture, you give money at weddings. And when you have weddings that include both the older generation and a younger, more Americanized generation, I don't actually think it's rude or whatnot to talk about present giving, because people are confused!

But this may just be me, and after all, this is why I picked up the book in the first place.

Other than that, it is a perfectly nice book, but it is a much more interesting read as a sociological artifact of a particular time and culture. And its presentation of itself as "etiquette" makes it even more jarring to read than historical fiction would be.

Comments

[sara]

Really?

Because I was raised that you NEVER ask someone for a gift of money, unless it's, like, that or your kids go hungry. (Yes, this is how I once spent a summer in South Carolina with no air conditioning -- because I didn't have the money, and asking for it would have been worse, by the standards of my family of origin, than going through a summer in South Carolina with no air conditioning. I know this is nutty but these are the things enculturation does to people!)

I had a wedding registry, but we certainly did not tell anyone about it unless they asked. I have been fairly horrified to get registry notifications in wedding invitations, and had I gone to a wedding like the one thistleingrey mentions above, where there were a basket for checks and the people getting married were white Americans? I would have been appalled. For that matter, I tend to think that bringing gifts to the wedding or reception shouldn't be done, because it's inconvenient for the bride and groom -- before the wedding, gifts should go to her home, and after, gifts should go to their joint home (though nowadays those are usually the same place).

We certainly got money as a wedding gift, and I wrote nice notes about it and so forth, but it's not that giving money is unacceptable among my people, it's that asking for it unless it's an emergency is totally not okay.

I do know, though, that Other People Do Things Other Ways, and when I go to a wedding in a cultural context not my own, I ask someone appropriate what one ought to do, and conform with their preferences and traditions inasmuch as I am able. When it's my cousins, though? I totally judge. ;>

[kore]

I think every getting-married couple I have ever known has had a registry, yeah. In the States at least it dates back to the twenties. I like the idea -- you can get something you know the couple wants, and IIRC once it's bought it gets taken off the list, so nobody winds up buying the same thing. But I'm not from the South.

[sara]

Well, I'm not Southern, either (if you go back far enough, I'm either midwestern or, God forbid, a Yankee). It's not that having a registry is wrong, it's that telling people that you have one, unless asked to do so, is like asking for money when you don't need it -- which is wrong, at least the way I was raised.

[kore]

Okay!

[sara]

I know it's weird and logic-defying! *hangs head* But when other white people tell me we ain't got no cultcha...I think of things like this.

[kore]

To be honest it's not that I think it is so logic-defying, but your choice of words like "appalling" and "horrifying" is making me uncomfortable, so it is probably just best for me to bow out here.

[heavenscalyx]

We didn't! But then, we're a scary Same-Sex Couple with No Traditions.

And really. We'd been together for ~10 years at that point, and I've inherited my grandmother's silver and will inherit my mother's china and silver and crystal, so WTH? Not like we needed household items or even nice household items. We just gave people a list of charities we would like them to donate to in our names if they chose to.

[kore]

We just gave people a list of charities we would like them to donate to in our names if they chose to.

Oh, I like that - that's neat.

[oyceter]

Oh that's interesting!

I also feel a lot of the wedding things I have seen (every wedding I've been to was Chinese American) are an interesting mix, because the weddings are pretty Western, but in that way you get when you look at what everyone else is doing and then go for it with whatever adjustments you like to make?

Ergo the idea that having the registry link out there and whatnot is perfectly normal, because it's not like any of our parents told us that it Was Not Done.

I think that's partially why reading the book feels so very "window into another world" to me; it's very reminiscent of reading about Babysitters' Club while growing up in Taiwan.

[sara]

Oh, I will freely admit that I was brought up with a wacky set of white upper-middle-class American cultural rituals and mores, which...I will be the first one to admit their degree of weirdness and, frankly, their utter exoticism to most U.S. citizens today. Heck, most of it's not really even something I do in my own life, except it sometimes comes in handy at work.

But my parents were certainly invited to various Chinese-American weddings when they were in L.A., because they had a lot of Chinese-American colleagues, and yeah, there you always bring a nice little envelope of cash, because that's the Done Thing. I myself tend to think that basically weddings are regressive activities and your goal as a guest is to conform with whatever the Done Thing is. *G* As a host, mind you, I expect I will be nearly as terrifying as my mother was (if not more so, after all these years of working weddings and funerals and running events on the job....)

And hah, I thought Babysitter's Club books were exciting and exotic because they all went to public school and lived near each other! Which wasn't true of me and my friends at all, growing up....

[qian]

I think that's partially why reading the book feels so very "window into another world" to me; it's very reminiscent of reading about Babysitters' Club while growing up in Taiwan.

Yes, it was like that for me too! I kind of enjoyed the book in the same way you might enjoy a witty rulebook for a fantasy magic system -- like a D&D book or something.

[vom_marlowe]

This is making me uncomfortable, actually. Appalled, horrified, seem mighty judgy. In another comment you say that you were raised upper-middle class.

I wonder if you've thought of how this is coming across to people who truly were raised with nothing (ie, lower class).

[sara]

...yes, I have considered that. Which is why it's fairly well-loaded with conditional statements and caveats.

And I will freely admit (indeed, have been freely admitting) that it's judgey.

[vom_marlowe]

"Which is why it's fairly well-loaded with conditional statements and caveats." I don't read it that way. That's my feedback to you as someone who comes from a lower-class background. What you may be intending (caveats, etc) may not be coming across as well as you'd like. Take that for what it's worth.

[kore]

"Which is why it's fairly well-loaded with conditional statements and caveats." I don't read it that way

Just as a data point: FWIW, I didn't either. I think part of it is you do not say anything like 'I do know, though, that Other People Do Things Other Ways' until the last paragraph of the lengthy comment containing language like appalling, horrifying, unacceptable, and so on, as well as the idea that it is "NEVER" okay to ask for money unless children are starving.

(Also I wonder if say Amazon wishlists are consigned to the same pit of appalling horribleness. No?)