Comment policy

[oyceter]

I previously have not had an official comment policy, but since I am trying to change my language online to use less ableist terms and it's reflected in my replies to some comments, I felt I should probably have something concrete.

Please don't use [oppression]ist language in comments. This includes racial epithets, misogynist terms ("cunt" or "bitch" as insults for example) and homophobic terms, which I think most commenters here know not to use. But I am now also trying to include ableist terms used such as:

• Dumb


• Idiot


• Retarded


• Blind


• Color blind


• Deaf (i.e. "deaf to nuance")


• Crippled


• Crazy


• Insane


• Lame

I have been fairly bad at my own language use in the past and am trying to change my habits, particularly terms referring to mental illnesses.

There will, of course, be times when people do use questionable language as descriptors or commentary or other purposes. I may end up using terms about mental illness to describe my own (depression). I just ask that you think about usage before commenting.

Thanks!

Comments

[trouble]

If I could make a small suggestion, "colour blind" and "deaf" (as in "deaf to nuance", for example) are also problematic.

Thank you

[oyceter]

Thank you! Will add those (and I am sure I am missing a lot more).

[tenured_fangirl]

For that matter, as someone who has relied on a cane, "lame" has always kind of bugged me.

[oyceter]

Ooh, yes, thanks! Adding...

[sasha_feather]

Thanks for doing this.

I'm including this post in my mini-link-spam on disabling language!
http://sasha-feather.dreamwidth.org/16946.html

[laceblade]

Somehow I missed this linkspam; Nice!

[oyceter]

Oh, thanks, although there is really not that much content here...

[sasha_feather]

Well, but the comments here are really good! (Have subscribed to your journal, have been meaning to for a while!)

[oyceter]

Hi, and welcome!

I'm learning a lot from the comments too!

[ginny_t]

"Feeble" also has problematic origins.

[oyceter]

Sorry, just to make sure... is that in context of "feeble minded" or has it been used in other contexts as well? I just realized my list should probably have words that are okay as descriptors for a specific condition (Deaf, blind) and not as metaphors (deaf to advice, blind to subtlety) vs. words that are just not okay (crippled, etc.).

[ginny_t]

The impression I have (and it's not the result of science or anything) is that feeble as weak came from feeble as feeble minded, and so I avoid it altogether. I'm too lazy to do a proper study, so I err on the side of caution.

[thistleingrey]

From a historical linguistics perspective, I disagree--the physically non-robust use is of very long standing--but if people have come to attach the "-minded" sense contextually, then it makes sense to be careful when using the word.

[oyceter]

Gotcha, thanks for the info!

[thomasyan]

Removing "crazy" from my idiolect is going to be hard. Ditto "lame".

[oyceter]

Well, you don't have to do it everywhere. These are just for my own DW right now. I'm also catching myself a lot, and it's been easier for me to start with text than it is with speech, but I'm hoping I will get into the habit for everything eventually.

[torachan]

Crazy/insane is the hardest for me, because I have real trouble thinking of a substitute.

[softestbullet]

My go-to word is "ridiculous." (Hmm, there was a post with a lot of substitutions for ableist words but I can't find it!)

[ginny_t]

Irrational? Illogical? (I'm working on it, too.)

[kate_nepveu]

I am doing this myself and yes, "crazy/insane/mad" is _hard_. (I never used "lame" so that's one I don't have to work at.) But in the long run my language will be more precise as well as less hurtful, so I count it a good thing.

[(Anonymous)]

Lenora_Rose from LJ:

I hate to say it, but while I agree wholeheartedly with the idea, one of your words has me bemused.

I use idiot to denote a person who is normal, not developmentally delayed or otherwise handicapped, who does something so remarkably thoughtless it has to be noted. To me, the implication inherent in the word is that they *are* normal and choose to act otherwise. And my workplace is pretty strong on not using any term outside the clinical for any disability. Have I been wrong on this one? I think I can *not* use it, because I do my best not to insult people without good cause, but I wanted to inquire.

However, on the converse, 'moron' is a term that seems to have strong ablist conotations.

[oyceter]

I vaguely remember seeing a discussion about the use of "idiot" and how it was historically used as a predecessor of "retarded." I think some people argued that it is old enough to have lost its backstory, but since I'm very new to this and have very little gut instinct for it, I'm more trying to veer toward including more words and accidentally getting some in that aren't insults rather than accidentally insulting someone.

I'm also still unsure about "stupid," so it's currently not on the list, but I am still trying to not use it myself.

[owlectomy]

The more time I spend with people who have intellectual disabilities of various kinds (which, admittedly, is not much), the less comfortable I am with using words like "idiot," and not just because of the historical linkage... Mostly I am uncomfortable with my own over-use of it, as a general all-purpose insult. If someone is being a jackass or a bully, I should call them a jackass or a bully, rather than making it about their intellectual capabilities which are really irrelevant.

I am trying to be more precise about what I actually mean. (But I fear I'll just start calling things 'illogical,' and then people will make fun of me for trying to be a Vulcan.)

[(Anonymous)]

The precision of what I mean is a good point - except that, inevitably, some chosen word will have a different meaning for others than for me, and my foot will be in my mouth... again.

"Fool" unfortunately, is a good insult ruined by a combination of Mr. T. and the cliched mad scientist.


Lenora_Rose

[oyceter]

Heh, yeah. I am trying to substitute "foolish" instead of saying something denigrating someone's intelligence, because as a couple of commenters here have said, it feels more to me like a conscious effort and a comment on someone's actions instead of on innate intelligence.

[octopedingenue]

IIRC "idiot" and "mentally retarded" were both at their inception were meant to be non-derogatory, morally neutral terms, but they've picked up that meaning over time due to euphemism treadmill, which is a never-ending circle.

[jesuswasbatman]

As I understand it there are problems because of the specific use of the word in the US to refer to graduations of developmental disorder in the 19th/early-20th century. I don't know if this was used in the UK, but in the US medical context "imbecile" was someone who never became able to communicate verbally, "idiot" was someone who never learned to read because of general developmental disability, and "moron" was somebody who was literate but still considered to be developmentally disabled.

[(Anonymous)]

That's interesting; I like hearing the specific source of words or their contexts. Something to think about. Thanks.

Lenora_Rose

[ginny_t]

I just happen to be reading Rebecca, which does indeed use "idiot" as a descriptor for someone who has some sort of developmental or mental disability (it's not at all specific).

In those cases, maybe the word "fool" (caveat: I've known people who would freak out about having that word used on them because of its connotations; however, I don't think it has ableist connotations--more "you should've known better" connotations, which seem to be what you're looking for)?

[(Anonymous)]

Fool does indeed have "You should've known better' conotations, which would be ideal, if I didn't keep hearing it with a mad scientist laugh.

[(Anonymous)]

Oop. That was Lenora_Rose.

[ginny_t]

Wait, that's a downside? I thought mad scientist was a bonus! ^_~

[sasha_feather]

I really like "fool", because it's basically occupational. Being foolish, acting the fool is something someone does. Occupation, not ability or identity.

[ginny_t]

Today I was reminded of "hamstring/strung" as an alternative for "cripple". I really like this for that exemption that some people are demanding for cases where capabilities are purposely limited.

[oyceter]

Oh huh! I will think about that. I'm still trying to collect word substitutes and trying to be more conscious of evaluating my language...

[seitzk.livejournal.com]

I've been trying to do this in general speech. It's good to know you're working on it too...