Procrastination post

[oyceter]

• About #AmazonFail: I haven't been tracking every post on it, though I think I have the gist. I am currently still deciding what to do; I have an Amazon credit card, and the extra $25 gift certificate every so often is really nice when I'm not allowing myself to buy books due to the student budget. On the other hand, I think I will start researching other credit cards with award systems and consider switching. While I do completely believe that taking the sales ranking off was an individual error—I worked in web dev and I know how things can slip through the cracks—that does not mask the underlying problem: Amazon has categorized books that positively portray (or sometimes just plain portray) LGBTQ relationships as adult. That's not something that happened as an individual error.
  
  I study information organization, and no matter how ordinary and boring of a topic it sounds like, as with all things in life, it is influenced by politics. Why else are people so concerned with terminology, like "Oriental" vs. "Chink" vs. "Asian American" vs. "ABC" vs. "BBC" vs. "Chinese"? It matters. Not only that, it matters whether something is categorized as "general" fiction versus "Asian" fiction; the underlying assumptions in a great deal of information organization are based on structural discrimination, and it's no different with Amazon's system. And this isn't new. Check out the Dewey Decimal system and what's listed as "other" and what isn't.
  
  More on Amazon's information organization here and here.


• I'm still trying to think of a theme for hosting the next Asian Women Carnival; any suggestions?


• For Wiscon, I'm on the Andrea Smith panel and the one about science and oppression. Yay, excuses to reread Octavian Nothing, Steerswoman, and Conquest! Does anyone know if the shounen panel made it through? Otherwise, I am considering doing spontaneous panels again.

Comments

[yeloson.livejournal.com]

Selfish, but I would like to see at some point the Asian Women Carnival touch on the topic of asian men.

Of course, the issues I'm thinking of US focal are very different around the world, and of course, women's dialogue shouldn't revolve around men, so... whenever it seems interesting and worth talking about.

[seaya.livejournal.com]

I really like the REI credit card. You just pay for a membership to REI and then you get 1% back on all purchases and 5% back on REI purchases I think and then sometimes 10% on some purchases. Then January rolls around and you can spend your dividend immediately in REI, or, as I do, request a check which is sent by July.

[oyceter]

Hrm, maybe a future issue? I feel sort of weird dedicating the second one to men.

I dunno, I was thinking of something transnational, maybe about diasporas and connections between countries and... something.

[oyceter]

Heh, that sounds like it would be good if I shopped at REI! I think I'm looking for something that'll help with stuff like food and/or books.

[seaya.livejournal.com]

I rarely shop at REI (though I do on occasion), but I just like it for the cold hard cash. Lots of other cards have points and it takes forever to save up.

[oyceter]

Ohhhhh, got it, thanks.

[mystickeeper.livejournal.com]

NOOOOOOOOO, MY SHOUNEN MANGA PANEL!!

I'm the one who suggested it, when I did, I only knew that you were coming. So, I suggested you. THUS, I'm assuming that if you didn't make it on, it didn't make it?
At least if you make a spontaneous one, you can write a better description!

Friends of mine on the ConCom have said that this list is not an absolute list of what panels people will be on, though (I think! Actually, this Sunday, I intend to attend my very first ConCom meeting, so maybe I can find out then!).


Also, not to be preachy, and I am totally biased because I work at A Room of One's Own on the weekends, but I really liked were_duck's post from a few months back about loving your bookstore.

[daedala.livejournal.com]

I call that my Amazon crack credit card.

Most reward cards favor people who buy gas or shop at convenience/fast food places a lot. I don't; so Amazon seems like the best deal. I run everything that isn't rent or utilities through it. I get a gift certificate every couple of months (I pay it off monthly).

I've decided to keep it.

[oyceter]

I am desperately hoping they did not put me on it only because I limit myself to two panels for sanity's sake. So I am hoping other people are on it! But if not, I really want to do a tiny group discussion thing like last year for shoujo; that was fun.

I am so bad with indie bookstores! My rather pathetic job goal once I stop being on a student budget is making enough money so that up-front cheaper prices on Amazon (not counting all the reasons were_duck mentions for it not being cheaper in the long run) do not dissuade me from going to indies. The other problem is that although I have access to indies that buy what I read here, once I stop being a student, they tend to be much snobbier.

My old local comic book store once refused to look up when a volume of manga was coming in... and even though they are relatively clean and well-lit, I was still the only woman, and it was pretty clear the guy didn't think much of manga. And the old used bookstore I used to work at would stock romances, but the staff made fun of them all the time, which I hated.

Er. Sorry for going all neurotic on you! I do want to support indie bookstores because of local economy and etc, but I also do not want to special order every single thing I read (I usually go to physical bookstores for impulse buys), especially if the employees are going to get that look in their eye when I place an order.

[oyceter]

Yeah, I do the same thing! Sigh. Why is there no general-books credit card with gift certificates to local stores or something?

[mystickeeper.livejournal.com]

I agree! Last year's shoujo panel was fun, and I would love to do it for shounen, even if we just squeal a lot about Claymore.

Those sound like pretty frustrating situations! Judgmental customer service people suck, :( I know what you mean about comic book stores failing in manga knowledge, though. One would think that they would be eager to increase their sales, but instead it seems like there's a lot of disdain.

I also hear you on the money-thing.....it's easy for me to encourage people to shop at my store, because I get an employee discount there! To be honest, most of my book-buying goes through used bookstores, so I'm not supporting authors/publishing companies like I ought to be.

[oyceter]

OMG I would so just sit in a room and talk about Claymore for an hour!

Gaaah, it was so frustrating! And obviously not all independent bookstores are like that; I go to Room when I'm at Wiscon and really love it, and I try to buy direct from small presses like Aqueduct and etc. And I'm very guilty of buying a lot from used bookstores too.

[yeloson.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's why I figured down the line. Y'all got hella more to talk about :)

[oyceter]

I'll definitely ask ciderpress about it, though, because I think there's a lot there about sexuality and the white gaze and etc.

[bravecows.livejournal.com]

Something to do with hyphenates vs. sourcelanders!

And I totally do not think you are obliged to support indie bookstores that look down on your tastes! They don't deserve this if they haven't got the basic business sense to at least pretend to respect your tastes in reading.

[telophase.livejournal.com]

Exactly!

I like indie bookstores, but about 50% of the ones I've patronized have, er, patronized me. Or the workers have just been uncommunicative and unfriendly and acted like I was an imposition on their time and wouldn't stop talking to their friends to sell me books or whatnot. And when one egregious example sent out an email to everyone explaining how they were losing money and we should all run and buy books from them immediately so they could pay their rent, I then DELETED THE EMAIL WITH EXTREME PREJUDICE.

[furikku.livejournal.com]

The impression I got from here (http://blog.seattlepi.com/amazon/archives/166329.asp?from=blog_last3) is that the categorization was a kind of "error in translation," although I'm not entirely clear on what was going on there.

I'm withholding any final decisions myself until the rollback is done, since it hasn't been made obvious whether this was a weird snafu or something completely stupid. :/

[furikku.livejournal.com]

Wait, wrong link- this is the one I meant (http://blog.seattlepi.com/amazon/archives/166384.asp).

[akycha.livejournal.com]

I buy most of my books used.

I am so sad that I am not getting to Wiscon this year. I will miss your spontaneous panels. I really enjoyed the shoujo bodies one.

[ciderpress.livejournal.com]

I definitely agree that there is much to be said about gender, gender identity, gender stereotypes, gender roles and the same wrt sexuality and Asianess. I would like to keep the next one focused on Asian women but this is definitely something we should explore as a theme in the future!

[ciderpress.livejournal.com]

This is mostly in my head since the recent cultural appropriation brouhaha but even taking white people out of left side of the equation entirely, I would be interested in themes wrt to cultural... inheritance and cultural identity? (Is that the right word? I knew I should have read a sociology book sometime!)

I think that's what bravecows is talking about when she mentions sourcelands and hyphenates above. What it is to be "Asian" as in Asian living in Asian majority countries vs. non-resident Asians vs. immigrants vs. third culture kids vs. etc -- whether we view we have the same cultural inheritance and cultural identity. What origin land Asians think of white majority country living Asians (and are hyphenates guilty of cultural appropriation, is it different from white people doing it?) and the kind of cultural cringe that many hyphenates experience when they meet FOBs etc. How that interacts with global hierarchy of race and country-specific race and gender issues.

Also of interest, what it is to be an Asian woman in different countries -- Asian majority, model minority Asian, Asian-as-majority-minority (say, India vs. USA vs. Australia).

Also! This is something I've been thinking about a lot recently but why model minority syndrome (esp. wrt to women) makes most Asians in the diaspora and the intersectional problems (race, gender, class, ability, economic status) they face invisible.

Uh, you know, I'm no longer trying to help you find an idea -- I'm just rambling! But yeah, wheeee, so excited!

[oyceter]

Yeah, I mean it is better than actual malicious intent, but I also do not think Amazon is as innocent as it likes to appear. First, it basically says they have functionality that lets them filter out adult content, and it exposes some information about how they categorize things that makes me uncomfortable.

[oyceter]

Something to do with hyphenates vs. sourcelanders!

Oooo, I like that! I was thinking blah blah transnational something something diasporic something something as well. Er, if that is what you were.

[oyceter]

Oooohhhh I really like that! Like Afrai, I keep noodling around with being hyphenate versus not and my weird position as tck and home countries and generational divides and identity formation and etc.

Uh. Possibly I will not be able to condense it into a pithy theme, but I will wave my hands so people sort of know what I'm talking about. Heh.

Although I like more examination of model minority too! And i wanted to do body image things! And talk about media/book representation! But I think I will do the diaspora/intl/cultural identity thing for this time.

[bravecows.livejournal.com]

blah blah transnational something something diasporic something something

Hee, this is pretty much exactly the title I'd come up with in my head!

[furikku.livejournal.com]

I'm generally OK with filtering adult content, provided "adult" is meant to mean "pornographic or ultraviolent," but I can see where it gets problematic in the details. :/

What makes you uncomfortable about the categorization?

(I'm trying to see the skeezy sides and my radar isn't pinging well, partially because there was so much immediate overraction that I have trouble getting past the Devil's Advocate bits of my brain.)

[lady-ganesh.livejournal.com]

Yeah, same here.

[lady-ganesh.livejournal.com]

I like that idea!

[mystickeeper.livejournal.com]

Hey! I thought that I would let you know that I e-mailed the WisCon Programming people, and they gave me the official word that the shounen manga panel did not, in fact, make it. Apparently 60 programs had to be cut from those submitted.

Spontaneous programming was encouraged!

[oyceter]

Siiiigh. I guess there are never enough manga people =(.

Spontaneous programming it is! Do you have a copy of the description you wrote up? /lazy

[mystickeeper.livejournal.com]

I do! Please do amend it as you'd like! It's my first panel description, so I'm not very good at it yet.


Female Power in Shonen Manga
Japanese manga targeted toward boys is called "shonen manga." How is female power shown in shonen manga? Who has power, and who is powerless? How are women’s bodies represented? Do readers get to watch women be powerful, or is their action shunted off-screen in favor of boys' action scenes? Which shonen manga series get it right?



Alternatively.....

"Female Power in Shonen Manga! Is it directly proportional to the size of their boobs?"

[oyceter]

Well, it's less about the filtering per se and more the way they define "adult" (the reports of LGBT authors receiving notes that their work was adult before Amazonfail particularly make me nidgy), that they don't tell people they are filtering the results or how to turn that filtering off, and they don't let people edit what they consider as adult.

Like, I'm sure most of us have ideas of what is too adult and what is not (mine personally are based much more on violence than sex), but when a system tries to decree what is adult without tapping into the community first, it's never good. It reminds me of LJ's hamfisted way of trying to label adult content.