(no subject)

[oyceter]

So I've calmed down a little and actually read through the entire thing. And wow. Am trying very hard not to get worked up again. The gender essentialist stuff in and of itself would piss me off, not even considering that he's using it as a piece of "proof" to further his very fallacious chain of reasoning.

And as hesychasm so kindly pointed out, yonmei and cesperanza have written rebuttals, which is good, because so far they are much more coherent than me.

ETA: I take it back. I am ranting anyway. Because the gender essentialist crap really pisses me off and his whole, oh gay people do have the right to marriage! It's like back in the days of non-interracial marriage -- you do have the right to marriage! Of course, with the small footnote that it is limited to a certain pool of people who look like you! I'm sorry. Yonmei goes into the whole marriage without sex thing but I haven't read far enough to see if she (he? I tend to assume LJ people are female, ironic for my gender essentialist argument) points out that his argument itself is very scarily like the Jim Crow laws. Blacks have the right to sit on buses -- just in the back. Blacks of course have the right to go to school! Just these certain ones though. Because of course the whole separate but equal thing was totally fair.

And I am pissed off beyond the telling at the gender essentialism. Wait, only a father can provide moral groundwork? WTF?! Because we poor women are too weak and coddle the children too much, and of course, we are all freaking the same because we have two X chromosomes? Nothing about cultural influence there, or maybe that the centuries confining women to the home space may have caused this, as opposed to genes. Oh no, a woman, any woman, no matter what, will without fail be coddling and cannot possibly *gasp* reprimand her child to provide a moral framework. Uhh, I'm sorry.... surely it wasn't my mother who taught me lying was bad?

I'm sorry. That's honestly the stupidest thing I've read for a very long time. And I'm not being good and logical about it like I'm sure other LJ people are, but oh well.

Ugh. To think I went to his signing.

Comments

[rahael.livejournal.com]

Ah yes! The Essentialism thing never fails to get my goat!

It always makes me go "grrr" and behave in an unladylike way. So no difference there then!

Nice rant. (Haven't read the article in case I see red too) I actually haven't read any fiction by Card. Should I? I see his name mentioned all the time.

Up until moments ago I would have said yes

[ann1962]

Card's view of family in his novels (and I have read most all of them) have been of sharing and dealing with problems in creative and sensitive ways. He has an uncanny knack of seeing the vulnerability of children and condemning those that cannot protect such. His view of women, I thought, was one of describing strong commanding woman. I have loved his work. His faith, while apparently strong, has never been intrusive on his work (except one novel that had Mormon characters, but the Mormonism was just a backdrop).

This article seems out of place with what I know of his writings. Apparently, he holds a different view from that which his novels spring. Too bad, as the "liberal cabal" that these conservatives "see" all around them, is only present because they can only see what they know of themselves. Their world view is one of suspicion and that is what they see everywhere.

Re: Up until moments ago I would have said yes

[rahael.livejournal.com]

Well ever since I heard that Tim Minear is going to be writing the screenplay to one of his books (is that correct?) I've been thinking I should give it a go. Both you and Ann seem to have enjoyed the work without liking the author, so......and it's Tim Minear, after all!

I am not sure it is

[ann1962]

I hadn't heard that news so I tried to verify and found this
"SF/Fantasy: Classic Heinlein book becoming screenplay
Angel and Wonderfalls producer Tim Minear has been tapped to write the screenplay of Robert Heinlein's classic SF novel, The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress, which told the story of a rebellion on the moon in 2067." at http://saga.jointhesaga.com/mt/archives/cat_online_escapes_sffantasy_news.html

I doubt he would be doing both but wouldn't that be lucky for us. Nothing else on this site about Card's movie Ender's Game which has been bounced around for several years but has apparently found a home. From Card's site: "Movie Update - February 10, 2004
X-Men 2 Writers Signed for the Ender Screenplay Variety Magazine announced on 10 February that Dan Harris and Michael Dougherty, the writing team that created the X-Men 2 screenplay, have been hired by Warner Brothers to write the second draft of the Ender's Game screenplay. Harris and Dougherty have already been in contact with Orson Scott Card, the author of both Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow, both of which have been optioned by Warner Brothers as the basis for the Ender's Game movie. Card wrote the first draft of the screenplay based on both books.

I guess we will see.

Re: I am not sure it is

[oyceter]

Sigh... I mostly really, really don't want to see Ender's Game the movie. I adored the book, and from what OSC says, they're cutting out all the things I loved about the book (the interiority, Ender's psychological battles and his pain). Plus, I never really liked Ender's Shadow -- it feels so much like a retcon on OSC's part, almost as though he resents being the author of Ender's Game because that's still the book everyone talks about. Or I project too much ;).

You're right and I'm wrong!!

[rahael.livejournal.com]

I knew there was a reason I was hesitating. Right it's Heinlein. Okay. I may try Card, but I'm not reading Heinlein even if Minear is writing the script!!

I was clearly mixingt these two writers in my mind!

Re: Up until moments ago I would have said yes

[oyceter]

Tim Minear? Really? It must be Ender's Game if he is.... that's the only one I know that's being turned into a movie (although it's taking forever).

Re: Up until moments ago I would have said yes

[oyceter]

I think so as well, and I particularly liked the way he made sure to have strong women in his books. Which is why this is so annoying...

[oyceter]

Ugh, I hate the essentialist thing, just like I hate the "throughout the course of human history" proclamations, because really, half the time the people mean "throughout the last century in the specific cultural area I live in."

Card writes pretty good fiction, imho. I read his Ender's Game in sixth grade and I still love it passionately -- it's one of the books that I recommend to everyone. He's generally very smart and very feminist (in his fiction, heh).

Glad to hear you thought him a feminist too.

[ann1962]

After reading this article, I really was not trusting my interpretation of Card. The man as writer and as man. How the two differ.

Re: Glad to hear you thought him a feminist too.

[oyceter]

Exactly! Will try hard in my head not to think of Card the man when I read his books...