Dollhouse 1x01

[oyceter]

Dear Joss,

While it's nice that you have an Actual Asian Person (TM) in your cast, it would be even better if you would stop using things like Asian teapots, hotels, clothes, and geisha (who seem to, like all the others, act as scenery in your world) while populating the surroundings with all white people.

No love,
Another Actual Asian Person (TM)

Spoilers

I will probably keep watching for now, because despite the extremely sketchy premise, the amnesia and the doll bits are right up my manga kink alley.

On the other hand, WOW sketchy racial politics! We have Latino victim/businessmen, threatened by a Latino gang, disembodied Asian artifacts set in a world of white people, and even more white people with all the power and control! And another white person investigating. (see ETA)

And a single black man, who though I like so far as a character, have almost zero faith in his development.

I know I read as very cynical and angry. I love Buffy, but I feel that with each continuing product, Joss gets more and more problematic, like he spent all his feminist cred on Buffy (hello, Angel) and then basically just stopped thinking about anything past what floats his own boat, id-wise. It's lucky for us that some of it involves women with guns, but at this point, I'd like a little less crazy brunette and a little more of something else.

Also, the writing in Dollhouse wasn't so great—clunky As-You-Know-Bob's, not much humor or wit, and characters who I feel I've seen in many other Joss shows before (hello Warren! hello damaged brunette out to get her abuser! hello Lilah! hello Wolfram & Hart! hello police guy who vaguely looks like Nathan Fillion!).

ETA: Wait, FBI guy is Helo? Wow, I am out of it fannishly. OK, another plus for a POC actor, and I am crossing my fingers that they are not doing the "multiracial person coded as white" and actually write the agent as POC.

ETA2: And apparently the Spanish is not so much with the grammatical! Why am I not surprised?

Comments

[laurashapiro.livejournal.com]

I noticed the teapot, but I missed the Asian influence in the rest of the decor/clothing -- except for the geisha heading off to her "engagement". I think you could *hear* my eyes rolling.

I am not sure that the casting of the subplot was problematic, though. I was actually pretty pleased to see a Latino of power, wealth, and sensitivity in the parental role. And the gang seemed to be mixed white and Latino, but I could be totally reading that wrong. I'd like to hear more of your thoughts on this aspect being sketchy.

Boyd is my favorite character, and he already seems pretty uncomfortable, ethically, with what he's doing, so I have some hope we'll get some character development from him.

I don't disagree with you that Joss has been coasting on his Buffy feminist cred for a while now. I wish I still felt like I could trust him, but I don't. Not after Dr. Horrible.

[oyceter]

OMG the Asian hotel! Full of partying white people! It was so bad! So bad! And random people in the Mandarin collars and frog button things! And the geisha! WTF? Also, to be nitpicky, from a quick glance, her kimono did not look particularly authentic—too loose and foldy and draped, with the obi being not at all stiff enough.

I did like seeing the Latino character as a man of power and wealth and sensitivity (although also annoyed with the Asian decorations in his house! For a while, I was trying to figure out if the actor was multiracial to explain the framed kanji and the bamboo), but I really didn't like that he basically was only there as plot fodder, that he gets shot and has absolutely nothing to do with the rescue of his daughter, and then is out of the picture for the rest of the show. And the egregious accent on the kidnapper over the phone! And that even with the kidnapping gang, the white guy is in power!

I like Boyd the most as well and really hope I am wrong re: his character development.

I don't know. I am just angry and cynical and tired. And the egregious Asian trappings SO did not help.

[magicnoire.livejournal.com]

I really didn't like the pilot at all. It wasn't even the sketchy racial politics or skanky premise -- which, mind you, I find both sketchy and skanky! -- I just thought the writing was really bad! I know pilots have a history of being shaky and bad with the writing and execution, but this is the first thing of Joss's I've seen since Firefly/Serenity (didn't watch Dr. Horrible and didn't want to after I read more about it) and I feel like he's lost something in the intervening years.

[oyceter]

Yeah! Well, I am basically thinking the pilot was probably rewritten a bazillion times, a la Firefly, which would explain the horrible clunkiness... like, even without the sketchy politics, there were too many expository scenes that served no purpose save exposition.

[shewhohashope.livejournal.com]

I don't think I've heard anything good about this show.

[oyceter]

Aiiyeaaaaah.... I am hoping some of the clunky writing was Pilot Issues and hoping that some of the problematicness is set up to be deconstructed, but I am really not sure Joss will deconstruct as much as I want, given the track record.

[troubleinchina.livejournal.com]

I have read a few squee-tastic reactions, but they seem to like the things I didn't.

[morgan-dhu.livejournal.com]

Aside from all the things that you and other people have mentioned here, from the recyling of tropes to the questionable portrayal of POC to the Asian artefacts in a vacuum and the somewhat clunky writing, what bothers me the most is actually the structure of the series as I see it now.

Frome Dushku's perspective as an actor, I bet it's a wonderful opportunity - she can play a huge range of characters and be one or more different people every single episode.

But... I find myself so far completely unable to engage with the vacuum in the centre of the series which is Echo's non-character. I need to see more of who she was before she becomes a tabula rasa, because there's nothing now to make me care, other than my basic philosophical/ethical objections to what is happening to all of the Actives. And while that's important, it's not enough to get me involved at a gut level.

Plus, I find myself thinking that while Echo appears to be the central character, a lot of the actual arc-level plot development is going to happen around Boyd and the obsessed cop, and I'm not sure how I feel about that. I want her to take back her own reality, not have men do it for her.

Also, there was enough women/girls in refrigerator imagery to last a long time, and while I'm sure Whedon thinks he knows what that means, I wonder if he really gets what that means.

[oyceter]

I am actually, strangely, ok with the central structure, but that is because I have a big amnesia thing and am therefore inherently interested, which I realize is extremely idiosyncratic. But mostly, yes, I am very unsure that the show will end up deconstructing as opposed to attempting to deconstruct and actually reinforcing gender stereotypes.

Which is sad, because although the premise is sketchy, I think it could have been very interesting with more male Actives and with an examination of the way gender informs who we are (or how things are imposed upon us due to gender). Or it could be a bitingly angry feminist denouncement. Or ... something. But right now, I am not seeing that. Like, I see the straw man being set up with the computer geek/Warren analogue, but that's the easy target.

[lady-ganesh.livejournal.com]

I find myself so far completely unable to engage with the vacuum in the centre of the series which is Echo's non-character. I need to see more of who she was before she becomes a tabula rasa, because there's nothing now to make me care, other than my basic philosophical/ethical objections to what is happening to all of the Actives. And while that's important, it's not enough to get me involved at a gut level.

That's been my chief plot/watchability concern from the start, and I have to say the pilot didn't really help with that, aside from the few glimpses of her memories "Echo" gets.

THEY LITERALLY PUT A GIRL IN A REFRIGERATOR. JOSS, IF YOU THINK YOU'RE BEING CLEVER, YOU ARE WRONG.

[minim_calibre]

Joss gets more and more problematic, like he spent all his feminist cred on Buffy (hello, Angel) and then basically just stopped thinking about anything past what floats his own boat, id-wise.

I'd probably feel less like cringing at everything he's done post-Buffy if he hadn't somehow, by quasi-empowering the tiny blonde, gained some kind of rep for HAVING cred that people take on faith (and argue loudly), even when his works are seriously problematic.

[oyceter]

Yeeeeeees. This! And I love Buffy and Angel, despite the sometimes skanky gender issues and the totally skanky race issues!

[lady-ganesh.livejournal.com]

I've said this before, but hell, I'll say it again: Joss reminds me of someone who takes, like, one Women's Studies course in college, decides he knows everything, and refuses to listen to anyone else or learn further, because he took that one course! And it was really awesome!

[tatterpunk.livejournal.com]

Yes yes yes yes YES, exactly.

I feel like the same goes for his dialogue at this point, actually. A lot of Firefly, in particular, was wince-inducing clunky. It got them the joke, but still.

[livinglaurel.livejournal.com]

I'd probably feel less like cringing at everything he's done post-Buffy if he hadn't somehow, by quasi-empowering the tiny blonde, gained some kind of rep for HAVING cred that people take on faith (and argue loudly), even when his works are seriously problematic.

ME TOO. Even in Buffy there were oh, so very many problems, and he's just gotten worse as times goes on, I think.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

YES.

You know that icon lots of people have, with the whole bragging Joss quote about "how come you have all these strong female characters?" I really want to do a modified version of that asking, "So how come you have all these strong female characters, but oh, by the way, they all just happen to be crazy skinny instead of being big and/or muscular, and then the plot just happens to require that they all shower together?"

[musesfool.livejournal.com]

hello police guy who vaguely looks like Nathan Fillion

I thought the pilot was pretty failtastic, but Reed Diamond was my favorite part - he was awesome on Homicide, so I have a lot of lingering affection for the actor.

[lady-ganesh.livejournal.com]

Half the reason I'm going to continue watching this is Reed Diamond, no joke.

[oyceter]

Oh cool! I don't think I watched far enough on Homicide to meet his character though, sadly (unless I did? I am halfway through S2 and have zero ability at facial recollection).

[rilina.livejournal.com]

You know my feelings re: Whedon, but man, this post is so much NOT a surprise. How depressing.

[oyceter]

Yeeaaaaahhhhh.

OT: I had several POC tell me about how much they loved Firefly over the weekend, without ever noting the problematic racial stuff. ARGH.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I've decided that the refrigerator was a case of being more meta than you mean to be. Especially when it was revealed through a woman who had had repeated mindwipes and reprogrammings who is operating of of the memories of another woman who was once in the refrigerator herself, and eventually killed herself.

That sounds confusing when it was all typed out.

I think the entire thing is even more skeevtastic in practice than it was on paper. OTOH, there's something weirdly compelling about it. As I mentioned in my post, it's like someone took Claymore, Gunslinger Girls and Rose Hip Zero, put them in a blender, and then downloaded the result into Whedon's brain and so we got a live action manga, especially when you consider that it's a case of weird gender politics resulting in an organization that seems to be "fist of the patriarchy" resulting in an excuse for a series that seems to be centered around female agents, for better or for worse. (People have pointed out to me that there are male agents too, but they can do that once we have them running around in barely legal outfits and taking communal showers.)

I also found wiped!Echo to be creepy.

[oyceter]

No, I think that makes sense. And I can see scenarios in which the literal woman in a refrigerator would be a powerful and angry critique, but the way Joss combines it with female pain and the POV in the narrative made it feel less like a critique and more like... emo porn or something. It is hard to put my finger on why, but just that a large portion of the show felt like it was from the male gaze, not the female one.

And yeah, I think even the premise could be done well and could make a dark and disturbing critique of the patriarchy and the construction of women as objects to be wiped again and again to fit into the structure (and I think Claymore and Gunslinger Girl do so much more successfully), but it feels too much like Joss wants to have his exploitative cake and eat it too by critiquing it, but only sort of.

[livinglaurel.livejournal.com]

I love Buffy, but I feel that with each continuing product, Joss gets more and more problematic, like he spent all his feminist cred on Buffy (hello, Angel) and then basically just stopped thinking about anything past what floats his own boat, id-wise.

Yeah, that's really how I feel at this point -- like, it turns Joss on to see hot chicks fighting with big guns, and while I'm always fine with seeing hot chicks with big guns, it'd be nice if it also didn't feel like someone else's stroke material, to be crude about it. There's so much more to feminism than just "women kicking ass," esp in super-dodgy setups like the Dollhouse.

I don't want to personally engage with it right now -- I'll keep reading what people whose judgement I trust say about it, and if it improves WILDLY, I'll check it out on DVD or via downloading or whatever. But right now, I personally just don't want to invest the time and energy on something with such a sketchy premise that has such huge potential to go totally wrong.

I hate feeling this cynical, especially about someone whose work means a great deal to me. sigh.

[oyceter]

like, it turns Joss on to see hot chicks fighting with big guns, and while I'm always fine with seeing hot chicks with big guns, it'd be nice if it also didn't feel like someone else's stroke material, to be crude about it.

YES THIS!

BTW, he *does* know better--

[bellatrys.livejournal.com]

Or at least he has at least one Actual Asian Person working with him trying to *tell* him better and he allows her words to be published on his own pet projects (http://drhorrible.com/commentary.html#nobody), so "ignorance" = no defense, this time.
(via James Nicoll)

Re: BTW, he *does* know better--

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

She's his sister-in-law to be, which raises the question of how Joss comes to notice the Asian women he casts in his shows.