Minekura Kazuya - Saiyuki Reload, vol. 06-07 (Eng. trans.) (reread)

[oyceter]

It's rather odd writing these up, as this is the third time I've read them -- I read the raws first, then the Japanese tankubon, then finally the TokyoPop translations. It's nice to finally be able to understand everything!

Spoilers for both volumes

First, the necessary squeeing: OIWEJ:OKM:FWUE_)#($_@#)$(!!!!! YOUKAI HAKKAI!!

Even so, the more I reread, the more I concentrate on the Sanzo-Goku dynamic. Possibly this is because I have been mad squeeing about youkai Hakkai for the past... near year (?) just waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting for this to hit the US so I could finally talk about all the things that lead up to and result from youkai Hakkai and the Seiten Taisei.

I've pointed it out before, but I think Minekura is paralleling Sanzo leaving with Gojyo leaving from Saiyuki vol. 7 (7? or 8?), and not just that, but also paralleling Sanzo dealing with loss with Gojyo dealing with loss.

I don't particularly remember if we've seen Goku deal with loss; we've seen him in the cave, but I don't know if he remembers enough for it to count as loss. Given how nearly everything in Saiyuki goes around and comes around, I am leaning toward Goku's big emotional awakening as the end of Saiyuki Reload.

I also don't remember if Gojyo has really dealt with loss before this; prior to this, he usually seems to be fairly in control of his emotions and not quite as prone to the batshit insane thing (which is good! Less mass murderers are a good thing!).

We've had Hakkai deal with loss prior to this; namely, we've seen him go batshit insane after Kanan was taken. And less insanely, we've watched him deal with Gojyo being shot partly because of him (Chin Yisou), and we've watched him deal with Gojyo leaving. The reactions get less and less batshit insane, though part of that is probably because no one actually died the second and third time. But I do think Minekura did the same thing with Hakkai that she's doing here with Sanzo, to a slightly lesser degree. Hakkai sees someone he cares a lot about injured because of his past (well, really, because of an insane homicidal maniac, but Hakkai doesn't seem to draw these distinctions). And, of course, there's the parallel between Gojyo and Kanan in his eyes, history repeating.

Sanzo's also dealt with loss prior to this, but mostly in flashback; I don't think we ever see him dealing with something like this in real time. So just like Hakkai, Sanzo gets a crash course in dealing with trauma, complete with flashbacks to prior trauma (I think there are brief flashes to Koumyou collapsing in front of him) and flashbacks to a prior villain associated with prior trauma. Alas for Sanzo, Goku's situation is a lot worse than Gojyo's in vol. 4, and Sanzo really does not deal well.

I don't really blame him, though. I'd say of all of the ikkou, Goku is the one who seems the most invulnerable -- he's the most well-adjusted, the happiest, the one who also managed to survive for 500 years by himself in a cave. And he's got the Seiten Taisei in him, and who knows what power that conveys? And to have that coming right after a conversation on death and resurrection, particularly when the choice to resurrect or not quickly becomes applicable and not just theoretical? That really sucks. Plus, I think Sanzo has sort of been kidding himself as to how much he does care; I'm sure he knows somewhere, but I doubt he's been admitting it to himself fully.

And the other part about vol. 7 that kills me every time (besides youkai!Hakkai) is Goku waking up confused, staring at his hands like he can see the blood on them. I'm still surprised at how much I've ended up adoring Goku; I think he's currently my favorite ikkou member. I really hope that down the line, Minekura will give Goku a nice, fat, character arc, preferably involving Gaiden memories.

Prior write ups here and here (spoilers through vol. 7 for both).

Comments

[rachelmanija.livejournal.com]

I think Goku's actually changed more than any of them, but it's a "growing-up" arc rather than a "insane and fucked-up to reasonably sane and capable of intimacy" arc, so it's more subtle. But in the early volumes, he's a child, really; but by volume nine, he's a teenager on the brink of adulthood.

I'd love to see a Gaiden arc too, though.

[oyceter]

but it's a "growing-up" arc rather than a "insane and fucked-up to reasonably sane and capable of intimacy" arc, so it's more subtle.

Hee, yes. I don't want him to go insane or have a fucked-up arc, because I like him nice and happy and well-adjusted, but it would be great to have something that really acknowledges his past (both in the cave and in Gaiden).

Also, he needs more hot shirtless moments like the mahjongg game.

[fourthage.livejournal.com]

As much as I like Hakkai and Gojyo, I've always been more invested in the Sanzo/Goku relationship (er, that should not be read as a slash slash). So these past few volumes have been like Minekura's personal gift to me.

I fully expected Goku to go running after Sanzo after he woke up. I can't help but see the fact that he didn't as further proof that he's growing up. I need to re-read, but the sense I got first time through was that he doesn't really believe Sanzo left him the way Gojyo says he did.

[oyceter]

I did a funny shift from first liking Hakkai (and Hakkai/Gojyo) and then Gojyo (and Hakkai/Gojyo) and then Sanzo (and Sanzo/Goku). And now it's settled on Goku. I sort of slash them, but in a future maybe when Goku is grown up kind of way.

I can't help but see the fact that he didn't as further proof that he's growing up.

Yeah, I think so too. And oh, that moment in the manga when he looks at Hakkai curled on the floor and looks at his hands and realizes he did that... that just kills me. Particularly the flashback to the last time he went Seiten Taisei and sat there by Sanzo's bed swearing to get stronger.

[fourthage.livejournal.com]

I would be more comfortable slashing Sanzo and Goku now than at the beginning of the series, where Goku was a kid an almost-adult body.

And oh, that moment in the manga when he looks at Hakkai curled on the floor and looks at his hands and realizes he did that... that just kills me.

I keep wondering if Minekura is going to address this properly. Goku is so different without his limiter. Which version is the real Goku? Leaving it as a kind of split personality feels like a cheat.

[oyceter]

I really want the whole limiter/Seiten Taisei/Goku thing brought up some time as well!

In the mean time, must eventually write Epic Sanzo/Goku/Goku grows up fic. Eventually...

[fourthage.livejournal.com]

Are there epic fics in Saiyuki fandom? I'm pretty satisfied with the canon, so the little fanfiction I've read have been one chapter deals. I would read your suggested epic, though. *enables*

[oyceter]

I have no idea! I wrote a sort of epic Gaiden fic, except it's not so much epic in length as in timespan.... I haven't seen that many other epic Saiyuki fic though.

[grendelity.livejournal.com]

I love little Goku very much. One thing that I find very interesting that I didn't pick up till I had the TP translation was that Goku actually died from those wounds, and then Gojyo and Hakkai brought him back. Very interesting, considering the Sanzo/Goku conversation. If Sanzo hadn't completely shut down, would he have respected what Goku said just minutes before, do you think? I seriously doubt he could manage that, because that's his whole spiel, the muichimotsu attachment-but-not-really thing, and he's a terrible Buddhist. I can see him being very human and very selfish about it. Which makes me love him more. I think I would have a huge loss of faith in his character if he had let Goku die [granted I still have a bit of heartbreak reserved for his desertion, but].

[oyceter]

Oh, I didn't pick that up!

I dunno, it feels like bringing him back via the limiter remove is more like the (very extreme) version of CPR and not quite as squicky as Hazel's whole "take another soul and shove it in" schtick.

I'm more narratively gleeful about Sanzo's desertion because it means Sanzo Angst and Character Development! Also, I really think his brain just totally broke down. Not that that excuses his going off after the hijinks were over with Hazel and Gat, but he still seems somewhat insanely focused on Ukoku.

[grendelity.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the limiter is very different from Hazel's little thing. Which creeps me out, still.

I also think that even from a distance, the general feel of the whole scenario is the ikkou knowing what they ought to do and completely throwing it away because they don't really care about the rest of the world. They're all very egotistical in the face of a selfless mission, which I love. Because it's a very different thing asking Hakkai if he would bring Kanan back and asking Hakkai if he would bring, say, Gojyo back. They're two different aspects of his person, etc. Same as how Sanzo probably wouldn't bring Koumyou back, but I can definitely see him bringing Goku back.

This is all assuming they can look at Hazel and his soul-thingy without making reflexive sounds of disgust. Hazel has a terrible system--if it was a no-strings-attached sort of reanimation, then I can see them doing it.

[oyceter]

Yeah, although I don't think any of them would use Hazel's soul-thingy, even if the soul came from a natural death or something.

if it was a no-strings-attached sort of reanimation, then I can see them doing it.

Hrm... I dunno. I guess I am wary because there's never no-strings-attached reanimation ever in fiction (FMA! Whoo!), but I can totally see them doing the bargaining "take my life for his" type thing.

[chomiji]

>> doing the bargaining "take my life for his" type thing <<

Ow. My heart just gave a terrified clutch at that - it's all too plausible, I can see it happening. Ay yi, the angst ... !

[louiselux.livejournal.com]

I've always wanted Reload to have a big arc to do with Goku's independence and emotional growth. It's tied in with his desperate need to become strong, and that in turn is down to the unstated need to able to control himself as Seiten Tasei. I do wonder if Minekura will be as obvious as that, ie, there comes a point when Goku doesn't need to remove his limiter to harness the power of Seiten Tasei or, if he does remove his limiter, he retains self control? He's also the only one of the ikkou who lets his emotions actually show and this is weirdly fitting (maybe just in my head) with the fact that of all of them he's never been devastated and fundamentally changed by loss of another person (that he can remember), as all the others have.

I also think that he must keenly feel his dependence on Sanzo to control Seiten Tasei, and probably feels like he's a burden because of it.

About Gojyo and loss, the most heartbreaking thing about Gojyo is that when Hakkai dies (almost dies?) in Vol 7, he does the only thing he can do, and it's not magical or wonderful or full of some mystical power, it's cpr. That really broke me.

[oyceter]

Ohhhhh, I would love that arc so much!

He's also the only one of the ikkou who lets his emotions actually show and this is weirdly fitting (maybe just in my head) with the fact that of all of them he's never been devastated and fundamentally changed by loss of another person (that he can remember), as all the others have.

Yes! Exactly! I mean, I think he would be devastated and changed by the loss of any of the ikkou, but in a healthy grieve-anger-deal kind of way, not in a "go insane and kill a village" or "blame yourself for your mother's craziness" or "contemplate shooting yourself in the head" kind of a way. Which is why I think he did manage to survive centuries in a cave (even though he doesn't really remember).

And I so want to see Goku deal with the specters of Konzen, Kenren and Tenpou because Gaiden owns me, heart and soul.

Oh man. Poor Gojyo. His expression on those pages kills me.

[chomiji]

When Gojyo was thinking "Why am I so useless?", my heart was just limp with pain. Poor guy. And then when Hakkai comes back to life, and his first thought is for Goku, and then he looks at Gojyo and asks "Why are you making that face?" And Gojyo is just "Shut up. Don't talk." *love*

When I whizzed through the book at high speed the first time, I was thinking that Goku wasn't reacting strongly enough to Sanzo's desertion. But on the second read, I found where he makes a conscious decision, when they're on the road, not to worry the other two. And I was just simultaneously warmed and saddened by it: awww, he's growing up, poor guy. What a way to have to do it!

[oyceter]

Awww, I know! I love that Hakkai-Gojyo exchange so much.

I really, really love that Goku decides not to go right after Sanzo like he totally wants to!

[keilexandra]

Wow, I just read your post and 3/4 of the way through comments before realizing that this was about Reload. Because I kept wondering why I didn't remember anything about Goku being resurrected... Doh. Oh well, I don't mind spoilers.

[oyceter]

Oh no, I'm sorry!

Um, since you're spoiled already... have this! You have probably already seen it as it has been everywhere, but still. GUH!

[keilexandra]

Oooooooh. *swoons* Thanks muchly! I <3 Hakkai.

[oyceter]

Me too! Especially like that!

[evil-kat.livejournal.com]

I've always thought that Goku, due to his interesting position, would not actually be able to ressurrect. (Unless, I suppose, with Gat's power? Or however you spell it...)

I love Goku, he's definitely my favorite. I think his memories will be opened to him eventually, and he'll eventually reach a balance with Seiten. If that happens, he'll change a lot--he'll remember all his loss, and all the violence (and, presumably, info) that Seiten knows, and he'll be wiser for it. I think he's the wisest of the characters already. He knows when to say the right thing, and what that thing is. (Like in vol. 4, when he drew Hakkai's life line to be longer.)

[oyceter]

Yeah, I think Goku knows a lot already. But I think a lot of it is not on a conscious level; he's moving more there, like with the mahjongg game, but some of the other, earlier, moments feel instinctual (like the Hakkai-life-line moment). I really really really want to see grown-up Goku who's consciously doing these things! That would be so awesome.