Heroes 1x20 Five Years Gone

[oyceter]

Every single time I think this show can't get any more awesome, it goes and does it.

Here is your warning for a total excess of exclamation points and capital letters and utter incoherence.

To get the somewhat rational out of the way first: am somewhat annoyed that more CoC ended up being killed off in the past five years (Ando sort of, DL, Micah) and am irritated that still only two women in play.

I probably could have analyzed stuff more, but really I was too busy concentrating on all the AWESOMENESS!

Possibly the neighbors and anyone outside could have heard me screaming at the TV the entire hour.

ZOMG SYLAR! Sylar is Nathan! Sylar orchestrated this entire thing OMG! Does he want to get rid of all the mutants so he alone will be the special one? OMG!

Also: OMG ANDO AND HIRO EEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!! Um, so, why isn't there lots and lots and lots and lots of Hiro/Ando slash? OMG! Hiro is all gruff and bearded and obsessed because he wants to save Ando! *dies* OMG! *flails* *dies* *is still incoherent*

I wonder why future!Hiro speaks mostly English though? Maybe Masi Oka was sick of memorizing so much Japanese? Or maybe it's because he's had five years without anyone to speak Japanese with and can't quite revert back to speaking it with Ando because then he will be totally heartbroken?

Um yes, that was total and complete fanwank.

Just... EEEEEE! Also, I am wondering if Hiro is going to kill Sylar; it really seems to be against all that he is for. And poor cute Hiro is completely shocked by future Hiro! I love the exchange in the beginning: "I think I'm scared of me. You go talk to me." And I do think the show is positing that this dark grim Hiro isn't good, that Hiro should still be happy and optimistic. But how much do I love that he's still the one trying to save the world? Even if it's to bring Ando back! I love that out of all of them, he's the one still trying.

OMG! Sexy Peter with scar! I wonder how he got it -- maybe he got slashed while the Haitian was there so he couldn't regenerate? Except... huh. Dunno. Peter and Niki! Niki as Jessica to make up for her loss and she has lost her evil sister/twin! *flails at coffeeandink* She is Sekrit Project Heroine Ba!

Mr. Bennet! He doesn't have his glasses anymore, maybe because he sort of lost Claire? Wah! And he's trying to help out, and he's got a deal with Matt! And Matt! Matt being not stupid and really very competent except for the whole not knowing Hiro time travels thing which would really put a glitch in anyone's plan. Also, Matt is really freaking scary, particularly when he betrayed and killed Mr. Bennet. Dude. Also, Hana! I am sad she was only there for three seconds before dying. And Mohinder! Mohinder actually being smart and stabbing the poor Haitian! Too bad we didn't get to see Mama Petrelli, although really, this episode was so packed that I can't imagine fitting her in.

And Claire! Ok, I wasn't quite as squeeful about the Claire moments, because she was more an object that was moved upon than a subject. She was working at the same place Charlie was!

Also! Peter is Neo! And Hiro is... uh... tough martial arts Asian guy! But that moment, when they storm the building? Awesome.

It's too bad the Haitian still doesn't get a name or a voice even five years later.

Also also, even though I know Tim Kring doesn't read comics, the writers totally do, as this is entirely X-Men and the X-Men Movieverse but quite honestly I do not care! It is too pretty! And I love that we can have the dark alternate futures with Hiro's powers and not have the world come to an end in the current timeline.

And I read someone's comment somewhere that it didn't make sense to have this episode right at the end of the season, as it wouldn't contribute to the current plotline, except it does, because it now gives Hiro and Ando a more specific sense of what they're supposed to do now.

vonnie_k has a much more coherent explanation of the Sylar/Nathan timeline than I do -- I totally didn't catch that Mr. Bennet handed Candace off as well as DL and that that was the point Sylar must have taken over. Though... where was he to begin with?

Molly Walker in the promo! Molly Walker whom Mr. Bennet saved? Turned over? At least, Molly Walker whom Hiro found! Also, checking comments in vonnie_k's LJ and 12_12_12 says that Molly is the girl that Matt saved in ep. 2 wow! Ditto with her catching Peter's dream of Nathan turning into Sylar way back during the aftermath of "Homecoming."

Honestly though, I walk off from this episode utterly convinced that there must be angsty tragic future!Hiro fic in which he mourns Ando and Ando/Hiro slash like whoa (despite Ando's very obvious straightness, but really, when has that stopped any slashers ever?) and oh, poor future!Hiro dies, and seeing our Hiro and Ando hug and jump up and down and exclaim over each other was so cute and so bittersweet at the same time. Oh man. That killed me.

Also, the best part about watching Heroes promos is that I always think they're spoiling the best parts in the promo, but really, they are not at all and the promos don't even help me figure out what's going to happen because of all the crazy plot twists and reveals!

Comments

[rachelmanija.livejournal.com]

why isn't there lots and lots and lots and lots of Hiro/Ando slash?

I bet there will be now!

Hey, you could make Hiro-and-Ando icons! I think I need one!

[oyceter]

I know! I need screencaps! With captions of what they say! When Future!Hiro said, "Yeah, but it wasn't as fun without you" I nearly died (for what may have been the 58th time).

I think I am going to monitor the Heroes comm now and see what happens to the balance of fic.

[tyreseus.livejournal.com]

If you consider the people dying in the course of the episode, Mohinder is the only PoC to survive this episode (not counting time-displaced Hiro/Ando) and Nikki is the only woman left standing. Sylar, Peter, Parkman, Nikki and Mohinder... that sums up remaining familiar cast members by the end of the battle, and I'd say that things don't look so good for Mohinder (being a powerless guy about to be overwhelmed by the Sylar/Peter showdown).

[rachelmanija.livejournal.com]

And Sylar and Peter seemed poised to take each other out, in a battle likely to kill everyone else within a large radius. I think Niki is the only original hero who has a chance of surviving ten minutes past the end of the episode.

[oyceter]

Yeah...

I wonder what happened to Angela Petrelli and if she ever suspected anything about Nathan? Or if Sylar managed to kill her off to avert suspicion?

Also, I totally forgot to write this up! But I love that what gets Hiro to teleport him and Ando successfully is Ando telling him "I believe in you." Totally goes with your noting that Peter's powers work when he is emotionally connected and Hiro's work when he has faith.

[oyceter]

Yeah -- I was pretty irked about the POC and women status, though really, I was completely blown away by everything else.

I am hoping that part of the new new future timeline involves saving more of the POC and women -- I think it's fairly clear that DL and Micah dying is a bad, bad thing, so I think that may be something that could be changed. And from reading interviews and stuff, the writers and Kring seem to be pretty good about wanting diversity (all things given). I don't think they're quite as aware about the dead woman problem though.

I still want Micah's grandma to turn out to have powers.

[shati.livejournal.com]

So was I, but on the plus side, I did notice that the climactic scene of the episode -- Mohinder and Hiro and the Haitian -- was all POC.

Micah's grandmother should totally turn out to have powers.

[oyceter]

Oh, that's a good point, I hadn't noticed that!

*basks in the awesome*

[12-12-12.livejournal.com]

I'm surprised I managed to have any coherent thoughts at all after this ep, and being blinded by the HOTNESS of FuturePeter OMG. They had better not kill of either Peter or Nathan.

Is it Monday yet? Because I seriously can't take another week of waiting.

[oyceter]

I'm *gasp* ok with a Petrelli death, but I will curl up and die if they kill Ando again! Wah!

Three episodes left, how will we all stand the wait?!?!

[laurashapiro.livejournal.com]

I am *really* cranky that "The Haitian" still doesn't have a name five years later. Add that to DL and Micah being killed off and you have an extremely cranky-at-racism Laura, even as I am blown away by the sheer awesomeness of this episode in general.

I want to make a Hiro/Ando vid now. Must find gooey Japanese pop song.

[oyceter]

I am very with you on the crankiness. And at the Haitian being killed off in the end, and at him still (STILL!) apparently being a pawn/order-taking guy of the Petrellis. I want him to have his own agenda, damnit!

Also, a voice would be of the good.

I am tempted to write Hiro/Ando fic as well! Oh, also, I was watching and was curious as to what you thought re: the portrayal of future!Hiro and the manly man-ness of him. It's also interesting that they did the same thing to future!Peter as well.

[laurashapiro.livejournal.com]

He did speak a while ago -- he talked to Claire. But it was really all about her.

I hold out hope that we will learn more of him soon, if not this season.

And yes, of course, the heroes in a dark time must be all butched up. Argh. Though in Peter's case, I find him much less annoying in this version than when he's all whiny and self-absorbed.

I appreciated that, at least, the reason for future!Hiro speaking English seemed to come from a practical place, but it still bothers me a little. I'm guessing most viewers feel as I do, though, that the loss of Ando being the reason for his hardness is a much less typically macho choice, and we can forgive a lot in the face of that.

[oyceter]

I was really hoping that the Haitian (I feel like we should all give him a name just because. Bob, or something) would be more active after he started speaking to Claire and really arranging things. But then it turned out he was only working for someone else, not acting on his own.

Though in Peter's case, I find him much less annoying in this version than when he's all whiny and self-absorbed.

Hee. Um, yes, me too. Although most of the time, I was snickering a bit at how very Neo he was.

I was also rather weirded out by Hiro speaking English all the time; it seems practical when he's speaking to the other characters, but it was very odd hearing him and Ando speak English together. I have completely fanwanked it in my mind as some horrifically sentimental slashy subtext thing; otherwise, it makes no sense.

I really liked that the grimness of future!Hiro seemed to be portrayed as something that wasn't good and as a reaction to the loss of Ando; I couldn't see any other way our Hiro would end up being entire macho and gruff. And I love that despite his macho gruffness, he's still got enough optimism or hope left to keep trying and keep fighting, as opposed to everyone else.

[laurashapiro.livejournal.com]

I like Bob. Let's call him Bob. We can be a club or something.

And I still think/hope he's going to turn out to have something up his sleeve. He's too interesting for them not to do something with him. Even if he does wind up working for someone else, he could be a double agent or something like that. Hell, I'd settle for Krycek levels of character development -- I'm not asking for the moon here.

I like your slashy fanwank. :p

And I love that despite his macho gruffness, he's still got enough optimism or hope left to keep trying and keep fighting, as opposed to everyone else.

Especially when Ando says "I believe in you!" ::swoon::

[oyceter]

Yes! He will be Bob. We should start a comm or something.

There really should be boatloads of angsty Bob backstory fic. I mean, really! He grows up in Haiti and is brought over here and decides to never speak for some reason. He clearly has Tragic Backstory like mad.

Especially when Ando says "I believe in you!" ::swoon::

Yes! I think that might have been my favorite part in the entire episode. Well, that or the Hiro-Ando conversation after Ando finds out he has been dead.

[laurashapiro.livejournal.com]

I would totally join that comm.

[oyceter]

I also keep getting cranky at the fan reaction I tend to see in comments and etc. -- I know it's not really fair to call people out on who their favorite characters are, but I get so frustrated seeing so much Petrelli squee and not that much for anyone who isn't white, male and upper(-middle?) class.

[laurashapiro.livejournal.com]

Yeah, fortunately my flist isn't generally like that. (: Although I see Nathan love all over the place, and I don't get it. I have always found him wholly unappealing. An interesting character, to be sure, and one I'm enjoying seeing develop, but not somebody to squee over. Because ew.

::shrug::

The class thing got more interesting in last night's ep. Peter is now "slumming". Niki is actually moving up (though still taking her clothes off for money, ugh). And what of future!Claire's destiny? How are we supposed to feel about her working as a waiter in a diner and engaged to marry a faintly dim busboy? I can't decide if we're supposed to think that's tragic. I sincerely hope not.

[oyceter]

How are we supposed to feel about her working as a waiter in a diner and engaged to marry a faintly dim busboy? I can't decide if we're supposed to think that's tragic.

Good point. I was rather disappointed in Claire's storyline this episode; not the working at a diner bit (Charlie's diner, yay!) but her complete lack of agency. Mr. Bennet tells her to run, then Matt grabs her, then Sylar kills her, and really, she doesn't do much at all.

[em-h.livejournal.com]

Yes, Claire got very short shrift. She didn't seem Claire-like, really; I'd have to imagine that she's been really beaten down to have become so passive, but it wasn't played that way. Also, I would've had a lot more sympathy with her inability to run away from Busboy Dude if he had seemed to be anything other than a nearby slab of meat.

On the other hand, Hiro/Ando is absolutely my new OTP, and I don't even *do* slash normally.

Wish I had more time to write about the whole show ...

[oyceter]

Yeah, she really didn't! Also.. Busboy Dude was somewhat hot, but really boring. I could have seen it as gritty desperation a la everyone else, but there just wasn't enough development in the episode to say.

OMG Hiro/Ando!!

[evil-kat.livejournal.com]

I have a feeling though, that this 'five years later' isn't REALLY how the five years later would be--if Nathan can kept from being killed by Sylar (and by extension, that lady whose name I've forgotten--Candice?) Then I don't see a lot of this future becoming what it is. Most of the people are in these positions due to manipulation of Sylar/Nathan. I think they had an entire episode about the future to show what 'could have been' but not what will be.

[oyceter]

Well, it's presented as a future that happens if they don't stop the bomb, so it's pretty AU. So I am fairly certain that things will turn out differently, given that Heroes isn't a bleak show, but it's still annoying to see nearly all the characters of color and the women being neatly written out of an episode or having them die.

[12-12-12.livejournal.com]

Well, I have to admit to being a complete and utter Petrelli fan (I include Claire in this category), and loving them much, much more than any of the other characters on the show.

And while it's probably impossible for me to be 100% certain about the reasons for my Petrelli-love, I'm also pretty sure that it has very little to do with the fact that they are white and upper-class, and more to do with the fact that the Petrelli family has (IMO) 3 (4, if you include Mama Petrelli) of the best actors in the cast, who all have (again, IMO) unbelievable, zinging chemistry with each other.

Similarly, I think that the fandom's inability to warm to Simone, for example, has less to do with the fact that she's black and more to do with the fact that Tawny Cypress is not a very good actress (IMO), and had very little chemistry with any of her co-stars.

Racism is obviously a *huge* part of the TV industry, but I do think that there are other factors at work here that have a more significant effect on fan-reaction than the actors' skin color.

Of course, that's my inner Petrelli-fan speaking, so I'm totally biased...*g*

[oyceter]

Well, I think on the surface there's that. But under everything, there's the fact that there aren't that many POC actors to draw on, so possibly we don't get the best actors for POC. Or that because of racism as an institution and aversive racism, characters of color have to be ten times more interesting to ping on the same level as white characters. Or that the writers unintentionally don't write storylines as compelling for the characters of color.

It's a lot of factors, and I feel that because of that, characters of color often need that extra push to be noticed on screen, and even then, they usually get stuck with the crappy storylines (Simone as the boring third of a love triangle of doom). Or they just get killed off.

I think the Petrellis are really compelling characters, but I think part of that is because the writers are giving them smashing things to do and angst out the wazoo, which always perks stuff up. And then you've got Hiro and Ando, who are awesome and get tons of stuff to do, but who aren't really seen as sexy by fandom (judging by the fic out there and comments I've seen). And part of it is because they cast an adorable actor who doesn't fit the traditional "sexy" image for Hiro. But part of that may be because of the whole Asian men as emasculated stereotype as well.

It's hard to say, and there are so many elements in play that I don't think anything is ever quite just liking a character, because of the whole racism as an institution thing coloring not just viewer perception, but also the hiring of actors, the writing, etc. etc. etc.

[shewhohashope.livejournal.com]

I finally got to see Heroes!

This show is so awesome, I cannot do it justice. Therefore I'll spend the rest of this post bitching.

I can't believe they killed off the Haitian, and didn't even give him any lines. I don't care that Mohinder grew a spine, he doesn't get a free pass from me.

There were three female Heroes shown, two were killed, and none of them did anything pro-active.

No Micah, no DL. And his mother continues to neither be on-screen or a first generation Hero.

If Ando actually dies, I won't stop watching (this show owns me) but I'll be really, really upset. I like him even more than Hiro. Since they've had this alternate future to explore the 'Ando becomes Charlie Mk II' plot point, they might keep him alive.

[oyceter]

I am completely with you on the race issues. GRRRR! Also -- ok, Niki angst, great. But can you imagine how awesome a grungy pre-teen hacker Micah would be? He would go into databases and rescue mutants with Hiro!

I was also irritated that Niki plays the standard wife/girlfriend-of-manly-man, who always protests why the manly man must go off an save the world and lays down a stupid ultimatum that it is either the world or her. I swear, that is in every other manly man scenario there is.

I think maybe I will start calling the Haitian "Bob" (see thread upstream somewhere). And then there can be a Heroes comm just for the women and the POC and it will be called "bob_the_hatitian" or something. And people can join and write fic about people who are not the Petrellis (i.e. all the people who are not white, not rich and not male) and it will be wonderful and happy.

But yeah, I really don't think they'll kill off Ando, not with the tragic leaving of Ando a couple of episodes ago, and the fact that Hiro lost his powers basically when he decided to emotionally disconnect and that he gains control over them again in this episode when Ando tells him "I believe in you." *flails*

[evil-kat.livejournal.com]

p.s. How does a healing man have a scar?

[wychwood]

I totally didn't catch that Mr. Bennet handed Candace off as well as DL and that that was the point Sylar must have taken over. Though... where was he to begin with?

Someone else - I think selenak - pointed out that actually what makes most sense is if Sylar picked up Candace before she went to Bennet (because, seriously, why would a shapeshifter need to hide?), and then got himself turned in so as to be locked up with dozens of inexperienced people with mutations - feeding time.

[oyceter]

(because, seriously, why would a shapeshifter need to hide?)

*snorfle* Oh yeah. That is a good point indeed ;).

I like that explanation! Though, ewwww.... can you imagine opening the cell to find all the brainless bodies?