Novik, Naomi - Throne of Jade

[oyceter]

This is the second book in a series that started with Temeraire/His Majesty's Dragon.

After the Chinese discover that their gift to Napoleon has been taken by the British, they send an embassy to London demanding the return of Temeraire and the separation of Temeraire and Laurence. I loved the first book of the series because of the interaction between Temeraire and Laurence, the sound of the prose and the dialogue, and the descriptions of dragon training. I like this book for the first two, but the third aspect is missing.

Temeraire and Laurence eventually end up on a ship returning to China with Prince Yongxing's embassy; over half the book happens on the ship. While it's not boring, per se, it didn't exactly catch my interest, particularly since most of the events were on the tensions between the Aerial Corps, the Navy and the Chinese embassy. I don't think it's because Novik wrote it badly, it's just that the perpetual tension and the perpetual bad behavior of many of the people started to get a little long.

Also, I read this while on an airplane that was delayed for five hours, so I may have just been in a bad mood and uninclined to be nice to the book.

Thankfully, while the Chinese embassy is set up as the enemy Laurence and Temeraire must face down, Novik does a good job of showing that there are two sides to the issue. When the ship's crew and the Aerial Corps (all British) react to the Chinese capture of a British ship, the anger is understandable, particularly given the times. But Novik doesn't let it remain one-sided, allowing Yongxing at one point to talk about the anger the Chinese feel about being forced to trade with the British, particularly for opium.

Also, Li Po is a dragon! That alone is enough to warrant a ton of squee! And! Temeraire can speak Chinese!

I think the problem with most of the ship stuff was that it wasn't about dragons.

Novik also raises questions with how the obviously intelligent dragons are treated in England.

Anyhow, things got much, much, much more interesting when things got to China, particularly in the contrast with how dragons were treated. Also, I love the fact that all the dragon names make sense in Chinese and follow a pattern (I think).

I nitpicked a little, but really, it was mostly on the preserved eggs and how I wasn't sure if they were green or black, and that's nitpicky even for me!

But the big thing was that when I was reading, I kept thinking, "Temeraire is like me!"

I mean, I have no idea if Novik intended for Temeraire to be read as a third culture kid (Chinese-British?), but I kept projecting that, and as such I felt an incredible amoutn of nidginess whenever Laurence was jealous over Temeraire learning Chinese or eating the Chinese dragon food or reading Chinese. It's just too close to my own feelings of guilt regarding not knowing enough Chinese, speaking with an American accent, and etc.

And in the back of my head, I knew that in 19th-century China, historically, things were just about to start falling apart for the Qing dynasty, particularly on the foreign relations side, culminating finally in the two Opium Wars and the forced signing of unfair treaties. And so, even though I was feeling bad for Laurence being torn from Temeraire, I also wanted to yell at him and his government for the things that I knew was going to happen in history, because even though Temeraire may have been a fair steal, the entire illegal importing of opium via the East Indian Trading Co., the whole thing about starting a war because China didn't want to trade for any British goods, just... gah.

On an individual level, I totally got why Laurence was mad at the Chinese. But from the historical level, I was angry that such a precious thing, a dragon, ended up British just like so much else did.

I don't know. Temeraire is British, from how he was raised, but Novik also sort of makes him into a third culture kid of sorts by having him remember/easily learn Chinese because he heard it in the shell. And I know the Chinese culture isn't necessarily his, but I was so sad that he'd know only so much about Chinese dragons and dragon poetry and etc.

I don't know how to react to this, because it's so obviously tied up with my own feelings of myself as a third-culture kid and how I regret not knowing enough about Chinese culture (so much so that I had to research Qing Dynasty history to write this). And it's further tied up with my own feelings about American culture and living here and all that jazz.

So therein ends my ramble.

ETA: Also, before I forget, I had a nitpick about the first book, which was that all the illustration of the Chinese dragons had them having five toes, but that is because I habitually count the toes of dragons after hearing some myth or something about only the dragons for the emperor having five toes. I seriously doubt everyone else counts dragon toes, though!

And! The entire dragon society of China was awesome! Awesome!

And! I love love love love how China is very much the Qing Dynasty China of the early 1800s; you can tell that the Opium Wars are brewing and that there's been depreciation of silver going on and you can tell the entire imbalance of trade with the rest of Europe. It's not the hand-wavy feudal Asian setting, it's so specifically grounded, down to the details of the clothes. I don't actually know that much about Qing Dynasty stuff, except that most of the TV dramas I'd watch in Taiwan were set there, so I know what the clothes look like, haha. But... so cool! And the summer palace, and the courtyards, and everything. There was such a wonderfully strong sense of place.

Also, Chinese New Year on the ship was very cool, and they ate jellyfish! Obviously, I have absolutely no clue what Qing Dynasty people ate for New Year, but it sounds close enough.

Links:
- tenemet's review

Comments

[yhlee.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I had real sympathy for the British diplomat guy who was trying so hard to deal with both sides and misunderstandings. Because of the little I know of the history, and "feeling Asian" (whatevertheheckthatmeans), I always felt a little aggravated at Laurence despite understanding his POV, and the cultural/mercantile domination made me feel deeply ambivalent and lose more sympathy for Laurence. (Which is not at all a complaint about how Laurence was written. But it was my reaction.)

[tavella.livejournal.com]

One of the things I really, really liked about the book was the fact that she didn't make Hammond a villian -- Lawrence was surely right that he'd have traded Temeraire for a treaty in an instant, but Hammond was also clever and brave. In a lot of books he'd have been made a weaselly secondary bad guy.

[oyceter]

Yeah, I liked that too, and that you could see both his side and Laurence's, even while Laurence was dead set against Hammond.

[oyceter]

Yeah, I felt bad for Hammond as well, and I kept feeling aggravated at Laurence, no matter how much I got his POV and his worry over Temeraire and etc. And even though I got why the crew was so mad about the East India Co. ship, I still wanted to bop them over the head, just because I'm so mad about that entire stretch of history.

[yhlee.livejournal.com]

YES! I felt torn about all these things. naominovik did a good job of juggling all the different perspectives on the characters' parts. There were very many ways this could have been written in sporkworthy fashion.

[sartorias.livejournal.com]

This is a very interesting take on the book.

[cofax7]

Oh, yeah. And now I feel deeply stupid because I even studied (a little) Chinese history in college and I totally forgot about the upcoming Opium Wars and all, when reading this.

Fascinating points, Oyceter.

[oyceter]

Well, it was sort of hard to forget after several years of Chinese history teachers going on about the Unfair Treaties -- that's what they're actually called in Chinese. There are quite a few of them. I had to memorize all of them for tests, and I kept getting them confused -_-;;.

Glad you found it interesting!

[oyceter]

Heh, yeah, I suspect it's rather idiosyncratic....

[minim_calibre]

You know, I spent the whole time I was reading Throne of Jade wondering how you were going to react to it.

No, seriously. I'd get to points and think, "Hmm. What will Oyce's take on this be?"

Thanks for writing this!

[oyceter]

Oh, cool! I'm really curious what parts those were now!

[minim_calibre]

Pretty much all the interactions in China. I should have stuck post-its to the pages!

I love the notion of Temeraire as a third-culture kid.

(And I really intended to respond to this 11 days ago, but then colds and ear infections ate my household.)

[oyceter]

(hey, I'm getting ridiculously behind comments too, no worries!)

I'm glad Temeraire=third-culture kid isn't entirely on crack ;).

[jinian.livejournal.com]

Thank you for writing about this stuff. Between finals and cluelessness I am not planning to take part in the cultural appropriation discussions, but it helps me to see how you think and feel about things like this.

[oyceter]

I'm glad you're finding it useful!

(not quite sure if that's the right word, but, you know)

Also, I totally understand why no one wants to touch the cultural appropriation discussion with a ten foot pole right now.

[kate_nepveu]

Several slightly-connected points:

I thought the book did a nice job of showing Laurence's limits and biases from within the limits of his POV.

I had that view of the book being structurally like a romance, so my brain put his jealousies mostly down as part of the relationship plot.

You know more about the history than I do, which is nil; do you see any way that the changes to Chinese society could ring changes on the coming history?

Finally, how do you feel about the way Temeraire's choice to go back to Britain was portrayed at the end?

[kate_nepveu]

Ummm, sorry, that looks very terse and interrogatory now that I've posted, I should've waited until the dog wasn't agitating for her morning walk.

[oyceter]

Not at all! Poor doggie ;).

[oyceter]

Yeah, it was weird because half of my brain was thinking, "Wow, Novik's doing a very good job portraying the complexities and Laurence's biases" and the other half was thinking, "Argh, Laurence, be good!"

I like the thought of the book being like a romance! I didn't think about the jealousy that way.

do you see any way that the changes to Chinese society could ring changes on the coming history?

Hrm. You don't go for easy questions! ;)

But I just found my notes for my class on the Qing Dynasty, so I am going to go reread those and answer this later.

Finally, how do you feel about the way Temeraire's choice to go back to Britain was portrayed at the end?

I was still sort of sad that they had to go back (see above re: third culture kid issues), but on the other hand, I really liked the fact that Novik didn't try to downplay just how tempted he was to stay in China. Usually when I get to decisions like that, I'm quite sure what a character will pick. And in this case, I was fairly sure that Temeraire would return, if only for Laurence, but there were actually a good few moments in which I wasn't sure how the story would go.

Also, I love Temeraire thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis much more for returning to Britain to improve the lot of life for his fellow dragons.

[the_rck]

Actually, I count toes on dragons, too, at least on dragons drawn in the Asian style (not much point with, say, a Germanic dragon. At least, I've never seen anything talking about number of toes mattering there). I think it comes from reading Norton's Dragon Magic at an early age, but I'm not absolutely sure.

I generally can't read stories showing European interactions with non-European cultures during this period (by which I mean all of the European colonial period). It depresses me too much. There's too much disaster looming.

[oyceter]

Ooh, does Norton's book have five-toed dragons? I haven't read it!

I actualy haven't read that many stories set with European interactions with non-European cultures; I found it really interesting to see just how strongly I reacted to it.

[rachelmanija.livejournal.com]

Oh, Dragon Magic is very interesting! Four boys of different racial/ethnic backgrounds separately walk into an abandoned house and put together part of a jigsaw puzzle with four dragons on it. When they do so, they are swept into an adventure involving a dragon and taking place in the country of their ancestors. (Germany, Africa, England, and China, IIRC.) The adventures are all very different from each other, and the dragons are not all literal dragons.

I don't remember the Chinese one that well, because it doesn't involve a literal dragon and I was more struck by the ones that did. But I did like the book quite a bit as a whole.

[the_rck]

Just a picture of one (I think). The dragons that appear on the magic puzzle are literal dragons, but the dragons in the stories the boys experience aren't necessarily literal dragons. The one in the Chinese story isn't. As I recall, he was a real historical figure who was known as the Slumbering Dragon or something like that (I really, really ought to go dig out the book. I know where it is. I just don't want to go into the basement).

As I recall, the British dragon was King Arther. The Germanic dragon was Fafnir. The African dragon... I can't remember the name of it. It was something that had been captured and brought north for a king's court. The main character had been brought along to care for it. I think the whole thing intersected with a bit out of the Book of Daniel.

The present day bits of the book are a bit dated in some aspects, and I don't remember most of them as well as I do the adventures that the four boys had.

[rachelmanija.livejournal.com]

This is mostly reiterating what we talked about last night, but for the benefit of comment-readers:

I too wish there had been more time in China and less on the ship-- just enough to get across everyone's evolving relationships, plus the sea serpent attack, which was both awesome and thematically coherent, as it involved human perception of dragons vs. dragon perception of dragons (and dragon perception of humans), and the sometimes tragic results of the species coming together.

I was delighted at how Naomi Novik followed through with the questions raised in the first book, of equality and inequality between humans and dragons, and of how a society might work if dragons were not subservient. The cooked food vs. live animals was a perfect little microcosm of the attitudes toward dragons in Chinese and British society, and also of Temeraire and Lawrence's shifting tastes and opionions. Food is culture. (Trying very very hard not to make a crack about English cuisine... After all, they invented clotted cream as well as spotted dick.)

I too wonder about what might have happened if, as I've seen some manga do, the entire premise of "Napoleonic wars with dragons" had been set aside in order for the characters' wills to dictate the action-- if Temeraire had stayed in China, and persuaded Laurence to stay with him. Might they have gotten entangled in Chinese wars? Could they have ended up on the Chinese side against the British? I happily contemplate the Bujold-esque moral dilemmas Laurence would have faced had that situation arisen.

[rachelmanija.livejournal.com]

"Some manga do:" I meant, "end up with a totally different type of plot than the one they started with."

[oyceter]

I totally want to know what would have happened if they had stayed in China! I'm now looking up my notes on the Qing Dynasty from my class in college and getting all excited about the idea!

your comment

[livinglaurel.livejournal.com]

I have to say I think this (http://the-red-shoes.livejournal.com/835554.html?thread=8164834#t8164834) was a very hurtful thing to do in public, and I really would have appreciated it if you had communicated that as a private email instead.

Re: your comment

[oyceter]

I'm very sorry that I hurt you like that.

Re: your comment

[livinglaurel.livejournal.com]

Again, thanks, I guess.