Buffy 5x22-6x02
Thu, Aug. 5th, 2004 09:26 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
oyceterSo sleepy...
Huh. I just looked out on the deck, and it appears we have a grill. How interesting. I wonder where that came from?
I hit that point when a book catches fire (not literally) for the Secret Country Trilogy, which accounts for the sleepiness. I still really wish the trilogy had been in print or somehow available when I was a kid.
I finished watching Buffy S5, and have started on S6 now! Familiar territory! It will be interesting rewatching it. Cried during The Gift, which I don't always do. Usually it's during the playback of Buffy's speech to Dawn, but this time, it was Buffy and Giles' conversation on the couch. Particularly the bit when she says, "I don't understand. I don't know how to live in this world if these are the choices. If everything just gets stripped away. I don't see the point," which is when I started really crying.
I spent most of the episode wanting to hug Buffy, which seems to be a fairly common response on my part nowadays. I can't help it! She's just so worn down and so sad and tired, except she's Buffy and she still kicks ass. She's up there with my other much adored heroines (Eowyn, Scully, etc.), and I have the hugest girl-crush on her. I have a feeling that despite some individually weak episodes and arcs in S6, I will never be able to watch that season in an unbiased light, because Buffy going through depression hits too close to home and is the most wrenching storyline for me, and I love it to pieces despite its flaws.
Other thoughts: the Spike-love of early Buffy obsession has largely abated, apparently. I like all the characters (with the exception of Kennedy and Eve). I like Spike the most as a person at the end of S5 and very early S6 (as opposed to liking him as a character throughout). Moments when I like Spike as a person: the scene in Tough Love when he's just about to pat Dawn on the head and snatches his hand back in case she sees, the scene with Dawn at the top of the tower and that horrified look they share right before Doc knifes him. I very much liked the Spike and Dawn relationship, and I really wish they had kept up with it. The small scene when Xander lights Spike's cigarette in Spiral. The entire sequence in Buffy's house in The Gift, not asking to be re-invited, letting Buffy know that he'll protect Dawn till the end of the world, telling Buffy that he knows she'll never love him. The scenes with Dawn in Bargaining, and the scene with him and the Buffybot and Willow.
Willow in Bargaining is very, very scary.
I watched Giles leaving in Bargaining and started fanwanking that his leaving again in TR would be due to the inability to watch Buffy go through all that pain, of being too afraid to watch his Slayer die again.
Interesting post on "How Not to Write Bad Het." I agree with most of the writing pointers, which is really not a surprise, given that those encompass a good amount of romance novel rants. This quote sort of annoyed me though: "The problem of "feminized" women in het is *so* bad, there are people who have actually fled the genre and crossed permanently into slash because they can't imagine how het can be any good."
I suppose it's not really in the realm of possiblity to write about het and slash without making comparisons in which one comes out on top. Heh. It makes me sort of want to run around yelling, "Most fiction is bad! The sexual orientation of the main characters usually doesn't change this fact or the percentage of the badness!" But then, I don't read that much slash, so I don't really know the percentages in comparison with femslash or het or what-have-you.
Huh. I just looked out on the deck, and it appears we have a grill. How interesting. I wonder where that came from?
I hit that point when a book catches fire (not literally) for the Secret Country Trilogy, which accounts for the sleepiness. I still really wish the trilogy had been in print or somehow available when I was a kid.
I finished watching Buffy S5, and have started on S6 now! Familiar territory! It will be interesting rewatching it. Cried during The Gift, which I don't always do. Usually it's during the playback of Buffy's speech to Dawn, but this time, it was Buffy and Giles' conversation on the couch. Particularly the bit when she says, "I don't understand. I don't know how to live in this world if these are the choices. If everything just gets stripped away. I don't see the point," which is when I started really crying.
I spent most of the episode wanting to hug Buffy, which seems to be a fairly common response on my part nowadays. I can't help it! She's just so worn down and so sad and tired, except she's Buffy and she still kicks ass. She's up there with my other much adored heroines (Eowyn, Scully, etc.), and I have the hugest girl-crush on her. I have a feeling that despite some individually weak episodes and arcs in S6, I will never be able to watch that season in an unbiased light, because Buffy going through depression hits too close to home and is the most wrenching storyline for me, and I love it to pieces despite its flaws.
Other thoughts: the Spike-love of early Buffy obsession has largely abated, apparently. I like all the characters (with the exception of Kennedy and Eve). I like Spike the most as a person at the end of S5 and very early S6 (as opposed to liking him as a character throughout). Moments when I like Spike as a person: the scene in Tough Love when he's just about to pat Dawn on the head and snatches his hand back in case she sees, the scene with Dawn at the top of the tower and that horrified look they share right before Doc knifes him. I very much liked the Spike and Dawn relationship, and I really wish they had kept up with it. The small scene when Xander lights Spike's cigarette in Spiral. The entire sequence in Buffy's house in The Gift, not asking to be re-invited, letting Buffy know that he'll protect Dawn till the end of the world, telling Buffy that he knows she'll never love him. The scenes with Dawn in Bargaining, and the scene with him and the Buffybot and Willow.
Willow in Bargaining is very, very scary.
I watched Giles leaving in Bargaining and started fanwanking that his leaving again in TR would be due to the inability to watch Buffy go through all that pain, of being too afraid to watch his Slayer die again.
Interesting post on "How Not to Write Bad Het." I agree with most of the writing pointers, which is really not a surprise, given that those encompass a good amount of romance novel rants. This quote sort of annoyed me though: "The problem of "feminized" women in het is *so* bad, there are people who have actually fled the genre and crossed permanently into slash because they can't imagine how het can be any good."
I suppose it's not really in the realm of possiblity to write about het and slash without making comparisons in which one comes out on top. Heh. It makes me sort of want to run around yelling, "Most fiction is bad! The sexual orientation of the main characters usually doesn't change this fact or the percentage of the badness!" But then, I don't read that much slash, so I don't really know the percentages in comparison with femslash or het or what-have-you.
(no subject)
Thu, Aug. 5th, 2004 10:34 pm (UTC)Heh. See, that's why I can't re-watch a lot of S6. It's almost like weird PTSD flashbacks for me -- I'm like "No no nooooooooo, let's watch cars blowing up or something!" Poor Buffy.
The entire sequence in Buffy's house in The Gift, not asking to be re-invited, letting Buffy know that he'll protect Dawn till the end of the world, telling Buffy that he knows she'll never love him. The scenes with Dawn in Bargaining, and the scene with him and the Buffybot and Willow.
Those were really Spike's shining moments, weren't they? (Apart from going foom....) "But you treat me like a man" gets me every time.
Willow in Bargaining is very, very scary.
Agreed, and in the kitchen scene with Giles she's even more scary.
I watched Giles leaving in Bargaining and started fanwanking that his leaving again in TR would be due to the inability to watch Buffy go through all that pain, of being too afraid to watch his Slayer die again.
Heh, I've seen that so much in fanfic I'm beginning to think of it as practically canon -- everything from Giles fell in love with her (or realized he had always been, &c &c) and couldn't deny her anything so he fled because he thought that was unhealthy, to he thought of her as a daughter and when she came back he didn't want to become too attached to her again so he fled. (Fleeing seems to be key.) I always get mad at Giles during S6 because he's such the father figure, and he's dumping all of them, and Buffy who needs him most -- but he knows Willow is messing around with that kind of magic, and he just leaves? I almost wish they'd put him in some kind of high-power WC position or a bookshop stocked complete with fiancee or something that would have at least been a good reason for him to go. As it is, he just fits into the Males Abandon Buffy pattern, and arrrrrgh.
((siiigh)) To end on a more positive note, SMG rightly gets the props for the tower scene, but Michelle Trachtenberg acts her little heart out trying to get her sister to come back to her.
(no subject)
Fri, Aug. 6th, 2004 10:08 pm (UTC)I love those Spike moments, especially that monster/man speech. And his conversation with Angel at the end of Damaged.
I hate hate hate the Giles-is-leaving-for-Buffy's-own-good reason. Hate. It's just so dumb! Why yes, I will abandon the girl I look upon as a daughter, despite the fact that, oh, her mother died less than a year ago and she just came back from the dead. For her own good. Really. *rolls eyes* It would have played so much better if they had even had Giles *say* that was the reason while in reality being too afraid, or unattached, or something.
As it is, like you said, it fits too much into the Males Leaving Buffy for Her Own Good pattern (I do like Angel, but argh).
I love MT in those scenes. And Dawn.
(no subject)
Fri, Aug. 6th, 2004 11:32 pm (UTC)Poor Buffy. I've seen the Body just about, well, once (she said "Mommy?" and I was like Ooooooooooohhhhhhhh fuck, oh, not going to be a good hour, no no no).
And his conversation with Angel at the end of Damaged.
That was awesome. I was a little skeptical when they brought Spike on Angel, mostly because I felt it was mandated by the network, but I think the writers really managed to make it work. It was nice to see them together again in the last ME show on the air ((sniffle)).
*rolls eyes* It would have played so much better if they had even had Giles *say* that was the reason while in reality being too afraid, or unattached, or something.
Yes, just ANYTHING. As it is, it makes Giles look like a total chump (although his songs in OMWF are v lovely). And then when he came back and they were laughing about all the awful things that had happened? It was nice to see Buffy laugh, at that pt, but she should have socked him. At least once. (Willow got some hits in, at least....)
As it is, like you said, it fits too much into the Males Leaving Buffy for Her Own Good pattern (I do like Angel, but argh).
That was one thing about the show that bugged me. I did like at the end that they didn't shoehorn Buffy into a relationship just to indicate Look -- Girl Happy! Paired Off!, or marry her off to Angel. I thought the Immortal thing was dopey, but liked the idea of her dancing in nightclubs in Rome. Maybe with Faith. heh.
I love MT in those scenes. And Dawn.
Did you catch her as the spoiled baby singer on Six Feet Under? hasn't had a lot to do, but v different role.
(no subject)
Sat, Aug. 7th, 2004 10:18 pm (UTC)Gah, yes. I just keep wanting to yell at him, of course she's relying on you! Her mother died! She has to raise a teenager by herself, and pay the bills (without a college degree, I might add), and save the world while she's at it! I mean, yeah, 20-somethings should be responsible, but that's a lot to ask. And she has no other adult role-models.
I didn't manage to get to see MT in Six Feet Under -- it remains a show that I want to watch, but haven't gotten around to yet (plus, no HBO).
(no subject)
Sat, Aug. 7th, 2004 10:43 pm (UTC)"Mountain Dew" -- absolutely priceless.
of course she's relying on you! Her mother died! She has to raise a teenager by herself, and pay the bills (without a college degree, I might add), and save the world while she's at it! I mean, yeah, 20-somethings should be responsible, but that's a lot to ask. And she has no other adult role-models
Yes yes yes yes....that's one of the bigger pure story flaws of S7 for me. Either Giles is a total chump, or....it just doesn't make sense, nope.
it remains a show that I want to watch, but haven't gotten around to yet (plus, no HBO).
It's not as good as it has been, but MT's v cute.
Just to soften Giles a bit
Sat, Aug. 7th, 2004 05:26 am (UTC)That is the why Giles decides to initially leave her. Giles is the kind of man that when he has his mind made up about something difficult, (this was difficult, he wishes he could stay so much that he sings about it) he doesn't back down. Instead he rationalizes why the decision is right. He is still concerned about how far gone she is. Leaving is sort of a cruiciamentum for him. Quentin wanted Giles to see that if Buffy really was all that, she'd be fine. Giles was right about "Helpless." His actions both ripped him and Buffy apart and cemented them together even stronger.
We can debate about whether what he did season 6 was right. We weren't talking about a 16 year old girl any more. At some point parents have to let their kids go. He was ready to do it season 5. If she is ready, she is ready. If she can fly, she can fly. Season 6 was hard on her, but Buffy did make it through. If the kid won't leave the nest, what is a parent to do?
If anything, one of her biggest problems season 6 was believing that she still needed Giles. She admits that is why she kissed Spike. Spike took advantage of the situation. It was like a drug pusher being right there to greet your kid as she left the house. Giles had no idea this was going on. He had no idea that this opportunity for the darkness was so available to Buffy and that she would take it.
We can wank it any way we like, but what was on screen completely fit with his character and that of a good parent. He can't help it if the situation was beyond whacked. As he tells Buffy, sometimes the most grown up thing is to admit that you need help. Not "don't leave I can't handle things," but to turn to those you love, like Willow and Xander, and ask for specific help.
Re: Just to soften Giles a bit
Sat, Aug. 7th, 2004 10:11 pm (UTC)I also will never be objective about this because I empathize with Buffy far too much, especially about people leaving because they mistake depression for laziness.
Re: Just to soften Giles a bit
Sat, Aug. 7th, 2004 10:44 pm (UTC)DINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDING!
Re: Just to soften Giles a bit
Sun, Aug. 8th, 2004 06:32 am (UTC)Dances and songs equals good times. That is how beautifully Joss used the genre. The happy songs at the beginning later show "all those secrets you've been concealing." They aren't happy. They aren't feeling.
My favorite song is "I've Got a Theory." They are all working out their new problem and having a blast. As it goes on, it becomes obvious that "we should work this fast.Because it clearly could get serious before it's passed." Buffy doesn't see anything as serious. "It doesn't matter." What follows about we can do anything together is nothing more than Tara's love ballad "I'm Under Your Spell." Buffy has everyone under her spell, when really Buffy is just going through the motions. Giles sees this.
That isn't mistaking depression for laziness. It's an abdication of responsibility that Giles is concerned about. It is seeing that something is seriously wrong with Buffy that the others are simply writing off. It's called Tough Love. Giles and Joyce have taught Buffy all they can. It is up to her now. She gets no answer from Giles, because he can give her none. That is something you have to get from yourself. "I got it so wrong," she tells Dawn in "Grave." Giles could have told her that, but would she have believed him? She had to figure it out on her own and she wasn't figuring anything out. She was looking to Giles to GIVE her something to sing about. If he removed that outlet, she would be forced to figure things out for herself.
It was hard to watch season 6, but growing up sucks beyond the telling of it.