Yet another book post ;)
Wed, Aug. 13th, 2003 08:35 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
oyceterHaven't just really noticed, but I've just started really thinking about the fact that almost everything I read is highly female centric. Probably most of my books here are written by women, and the ones that aren't generally have strong female characters in them.
I find this interesting, considering most everything I read is sci-fi/fantasy, which can often be seen as (and is often seen as) a largely male genre. I guess this is much more obvious for sci-fi, but I think it holds true for fantasy too. I mean, the entire genre basically got its commercial kick start from Tokien, and we all know how good Tokien is at the girls. Then I'll bet the fantasy books that sell the best are the quest-type fantasies like Robert Jordan, Terry Brooks, etc. And I know fantasy can often be associated with the Dungeons and Dragons/role-playing crowd, which also feels male. And, well, swords. Very phallic ;).
When I first got into fantasy by picking up LotR in sixth grade, I couldn't believe that books like that existed. I'd grown up reading myths and legends and fairy tales, and here was this giant fat adult book that was like my old reading lists, but with more pages! Tried to find more books like that, and fell in with Terry Brooks' Shannara series. Then found David Eddings, Piers Anthony, Anne McCaffrey, Mercedes Lackey, Robert Jordan and authors like that. Eventually got bored of them. Found Robin McKinley's Beauty, and by doing so, found a whole new section of fantasy. I don't know why McKinley's books feel so different from Lackey's and McCaffrey's. Ok, I do know why I find them different -- they feel more intimate, more personal, more interior. There's less about the saving of the universe or the kingdom or whatnot, and more about Beauty, who she is as a person, what she reads, what she enjoys.
So I kind of had a falling out with the quest fantasy. I got (very very) sick of Jordan's Wheel of Time, mostly because he can't write females worth anything. Plus, it was neverending. But honestly, the man cannot write females worth anything! I got a little disturbed by the constant ogling at Piers Anthony's female characters -- he's got seductresses by the handful, Nada Naga, lots of breasts floating around. And I think in the end, subconsciously, I might have gotten a little sick of the young boy hero goes off to save the world with his trusty male companions. Sometimes with a feisty female thrown in! I love Tolkien, though probably more the memory of reading him and the fact that he introduced me to this genre rather than the books themselves. I haven't reread them in years, and now, I'm really only interested in Eowyn's story. Side note, will personally hunt down Peter Jackson if he messes her up in the third movie. Because, hey, nothing against Arwen, but Eowyn kills a Witch-King! I used to pretend I was her riding Shadowfax when I was little ;).
And sometimes it just feels as though many of the mainstream quest fantasy books are all about this fellowship of men and young boys going out and proving their manhood or something.
I found Robin McKinley's website, and she's got a whole bunch of essays there detailing her fascination with Girls Who Do Something, and that's what I like in my books. It's interesting to find I'm so gender-minded in these things. And maybe as a complement to this, I'm mostly interested in fantasy that is more character-driven, more about interiority. I like characters who think and who have emotions and moral dilemmas. Is that a gendered thing? Is interiority still equated with femininity?
But then, it's not as though I only identify with female characters too. Although mostly I have a habit of finding my favorite female character in a TV show or a book and really sticking by her. Yet, some part of me is Ender and is Fitz because I've read them and lived inside their heads for so long. And in that sense, gender seems a side note. Yet, there's also a part of me who will always love Kettricken not only because she's a great character, but because she's a great female character who kicks ass. I think sometimes my character love can get very political. I know I loved Anne Bishop's Black Jewels trilogy because it was about a world where the natural hierarchy had females on top, as the Queens of their world, and I know this really irked one of my male friends who read it. Perhaps it's when books are well-characterized enough, the gender issue fades away because each character is a person in his/her own right. I think Hobb, Orson Scott Card, Neil Gaiman, Guy Gavriel Kay, among others, do this very well. Although, I still don't get Molly in the Hobb books, and I've always resented the fact that Mornir the father god has mostly diverted power from Dana the mother goddess in GGK's Fionavar Tapestry. With some other authors, sometimes I feel like the agenda is pushed too hard, aka Mists of Avalon. Look! There are females in this book! It is a Female Book! the book screams at me. Other times it's just the opposite. Oops, we forgot the girls. Ummm... here, love interest. Right now, back to the guys.
Anyway, I'm just rambling like mad about all this. Don't even get me started on YA fantasy and why I think it's an awesome thing.
I find this interesting, considering most everything I read is sci-fi/fantasy, which can often be seen as (and is often seen as) a largely male genre. I guess this is much more obvious for sci-fi, but I think it holds true for fantasy too. I mean, the entire genre basically got its commercial kick start from Tokien, and we all know how good Tokien is at the girls. Then I'll bet the fantasy books that sell the best are the quest-type fantasies like Robert Jordan, Terry Brooks, etc. And I know fantasy can often be associated with the Dungeons and Dragons/role-playing crowd, which also feels male. And, well, swords. Very phallic ;).
When I first got into fantasy by picking up LotR in sixth grade, I couldn't believe that books like that existed. I'd grown up reading myths and legends and fairy tales, and here was this giant fat adult book that was like my old reading lists, but with more pages! Tried to find more books like that, and fell in with Terry Brooks' Shannara series. Then found David Eddings, Piers Anthony, Anne McCaffrey, Mercedes Lackey, Robert Jordan and authors like that. Eventually got bored of them. Found Robin McKinley's Beauty, and by doing so, found a whole new section of fantasy. I don't know why McKinley's books feel so different from Lackey's and McCaffrey's. Ok, I do know why I find them different -- they feel more intimate, more personal, more interior. There's less about the saving of the universe or the kingdom or whatnot, and more about Beauty, who she is as a person, what she reads, what she enjoys.
So I kind of had a falling out with the quest fantasy. I got (very very) sick of Jordan's Wheel of Time, mostly because he can't write females worth anything. Plus, it was neverending. But honestly, the man cannot write females worth anything! I got a little disturbed by the constant ogling at Piers Anthony's female characters -- he's got seductresses by the handful, Nada Naga, lots of breasts floating around. And I think in the end, subconsciously, I might have gotten a little sick of the young boy hero goes off to save the world with his trusty male companions. Sometimes with a feisty female thrown in! I love Tolkien, though probably more the memory of reading him and the fact that he introduced me to this genre rather than the books themselves. I haven't reread them in years, and now, I'm really only interested in Eowyn's story. Side note, will personally hunt down Peter Jackson if he messes her up in the third movie. Because, hey, nothing against Arwen, but Eowyn kills a Witch-King! I used to pretend I was her riding Shadowfax when I was little ;).
And sometimes it just feels as though many of the mainstream quest fantasy books are all about this fellowship of men and young boys going out and proving their manhood or something.
I found Robin McKinley's website, and she's got a whole bunch of essays there detailing her fascination with Girls Who Do Something, and that's what I like in my books. It's interesting to find I'm so gender-minded in these things. And maybe as a complement to this, I'm mostly interested in fantasy that is more character-driven, more about interiority. I like characters who think and who have emotions and moral dilemmas. Is that a gendered thing? Is interiority still equated with femininity?
But then, it's not as though I only identify with female characters too. Although mostly I have a habit of finding my favorite female character in a TV show or a book and really sticking by her. Yet, some part of me is Ender and is Fitz because I've read them and lived inside their heads for so long. And in that sense, gender seems a side note. Yet, there's also a part of me who will always love Kettricken not only because she's a great character, but because she's a great female character who kicks ass. I think sometimes my character love can get very political. I know I loved Anne Bishop's Black Jewels trilogy because it was about a world where the natural hierarchy had females on top, as the Queens of their world, and I know this really irked one of my male friends who read it. Perhaps it's when books are well-characterized enough, the gender issue fades away because each character is a person in his/her own right. I think Hobb, Orson Scott Card, Neil Gaiman, Guy Gavriel Kay, among others, do this very well. Although, I still don't get Molly in the Hobb books, and I've always resented the fact that Mornir the father god has mostly diverted power from Dana the mother goddess in GGK's Fionavar Tapestry. With some other authors, sometimes I feel like the agenda is pushed too hard, aka Mists of Avalon. Look! There are females in this book! It is a Female Book! the book screams at me. Other times it's just the opposite. Oops, we forgot the girls. Ummm... here, love interest. Right now, back to the guys.
Anyway, I'm just rambling like mad about all this. Don't even get me started on YA fantasy and why I think it's an awesome thing.
(no subject)
Thu, Aug. 14th, 2003 04:52 am (UTC)I don’t know if it’s a gendered thing or not. I’d very much like to think ‘not’. But I definitely agree re the fascination with ‘girls who do something’. By own reading as a child and teenager was very directed toward findings books (and especially fantasy books) with strong female characters. There was the odd books that was so friggin’ fantastic I’d read it anyway (LoTR series, for example), but for the most part is just had to contain a female character I could identify with and admire. A female character who did things – and things other than just being the love interest. Which, btw, is why I never got into Jordan or Eddings – their chicks sucked.
In saying this, I realise there’s a bit of a tension between different schools of feminism. When they LoTR movie came out, there was a great deal of hot air about the ‘enhanced’ role that was to be given to Arwen. A lot of people who all in favour of Arwen: Warrior Princess. But another group of people pointed out that by making Arwen into a warrior, it diminishes and belittles her more traditional role as supporter, comforter and protector on the home front (although, granted, Tolkien probably didn’t really set out to enhance it). When we keep insisting the women have to do the things men do in order that they we worthy, we overlook, for example, that women often run the castles and administration while men fought, or that embroidery was as much an art as portraiture. We still do devalue their women’s traditional roles.
But that’s all philosophical stuff. I take the point at a theoretical level, but it’s not an argument that appeals to be in any practical sense, because I’d much rather read about chicks with swords and bows or even thieves picks than I would about domestic politics.
But then, it's not as though I only identify with female characters too. Although mostly I have a habit of finding my favorite female character in a TV show or a book and really sticking by her.
I don’t only identify with female characters, either. There are probably more times when I identify with a bloke. But it’s still nice to have strong, stereo-type busting chicks around, that so that’s someone you can identify with in some way, somehow, if nothing else.
(no subject)
Thu, Aug. 14th, 2003 05:20 am (UTC)Huh, never thought of the Arwen thing in that light! Mostly for me I start seeing red if I think she's going to upstage Eowyn... yeah, I attached very strongly ;). So I was really annoyed with the whole poster that made Eowyn out as Arwen's rival, but loved all the parts in the movie on how trapped she felt. Although I think her job in the book was an important one, ruling over Rohan in her uncle and brother's absence -- she almost seems to buy too much into fighting as the only way to go, and doesn't find a way out of that mentality until she meets Faramir. So I don't think it's a cop out in the end when she decides to heal others, because that's a good thing too.
Hrm, I find it interesting that I mostly identify with the female characters, which is why I tend to have a problem with slash -- it intrinsically ignores the girl! So off I went looking for books and TV that would support my habit and give me good female characters to identify with... I so idolize characters like Scully and CJ on West Wing and Sam in SG-1.
(no subject)
Thu, Aug. 14th, 2003 06:46 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Fri, Aug. 15th, 2003 07:44 pm (UTC)tangent-y
Thu, Aug. 21st, 2003 05:25 pm (UTC)Re: tangent-y
Thu, Aug. 21st, 2003 06:42 pm (UTC)