Martin, Judith, and Jacobina Martin - Miss Manners' Guide to a Surprisingly Dignified Wedding

[oyceter]

I read this because despite having been to several weddings, I can still never quite figure out what to do/what you're supposed to do. This is even more confusing now that I am part of sister's wedding party and therefore have things to do that extend beyond the day of the wedding.

This book was written with the notion that today's weddings have now become massive, expensive events in which the bride selfishly makes demands of everyone because it's "her day." I have, as I'm sure some of you expected, some issues with this. Given that this is Miss Manners and not a book on gender roles and social commentary, I'm okay with the fact that she doesn't unpack this more, but I'm also disappointed that it simply goes with this cliched view of weddings and brides. This is not to say that selfish brides don't exist, but I think the narrative of the selfish bride handwaves how much USian society pressures women to view their wedding day as The Biggest Day of Their Entire Life, how so much of the traditional female narrative is being male person's noun (brother's sister, father's daughter, son's mother, etc.) and this is still within that frame but at least focuses on the woman, how there is so much pressure for the bride to plan the whole damn thing herself with the groom supposedly not having any input or help, and etc. So yes, selfish brides exist, but on the other hand, condemning them for selfishness while ignoring all these other factors annoys me.

Also, as you have probably noticed, I keep using the terms "bride" and "groom." This is because although the book acknowledges same-sex marriages, it's very much written with heterosexual pairs in mind. Miss Manners is supportive of same-sex marriages, but the way the book is written, it's very..."things don't exist unless readers bring them up." There's a very standard narrative in place, and the book does not break out of it unless prodded to do so. This was an excellent example for me of authors who probably want to be inclusive but are unintentionally exclusive because they don't think outside the norm.

For example, I kept reading advice on how good brides who are not selfish will take their parents into account and such. Which, yes, great if you have a good relationship with your parents. Not so great otherwise. It's also very whitebread American culture, despite Miss Manners' acknowledgement of other cultural traditions.

I was particularly irked by her annoyance at people who solicit funds and money at bridal showers and weddings and etc. One reader made a point that sometimes it is cultural, but the only response was that if the bride's mother was writing to Miss Manners about it, obviously it wasn't cultural enough. And I am all for her aghastness at people's behavior, except in variations of my culture, you give money at weddings. And when you have weddings that include both the older generation and a younger, more Americanized generation, I don't actually think it's rude or whatnot to talk about present giving, because people are confused!

But this may just be me, and after all, this is why I picked up the book in the first place.

Other than that, it is a perfectly nice book, but it is a much more interesting read as a sociological artifact of a particular time and culture. And its presentation of itself as "etiquette" makes it even more jarring to read than historical fiction would be.

Comments

[troisroyaumes]

Hah, I am totally bemused at the "cash is not classy" idea because money at weddings is such a norm for me.

There does seem to be an endless etiquette debate over what's polite in terms of how much to give/how much to expect/how and when to receive the money though, which intersects a lot with class and degree of assimilation...it's fascinating, if vaguely head-explosion-inducing, to listen to my mother and family acquaintances gossip about the changing norms.

[lady_ganesh]

This is, I think, one of the reasons my family practice is to Give Stuff. Because then no one knows how much you spent and it's the thought that counts, right? (Also, my grandparents came from Not Much and were very good at putting things together, crafting, etc.)

[troisroyaumes]

Well, obviously I can't speak about other cultures, but in my culture, it's also a very well-established tradition (older than the cash-giving) for the two families to exchange certain types of gifts before the wedding, and the fact that no one knows how much was spent has certainly not stopped engagements being broken because the gifts in question were not high enough in value. People's abilities to create conflict are endless, regardless of whether it's cash or goods.

My mother and her acquaintances range from working to lower middle class; they're also pretty resourceful at putting together gifts when non-cash gifts are appropriate. But giving a gift instead of cash would not really be appropriate at the Korean-American weddings they attend, especially since the type of wedding gifts that are usually given in U.S. culture are traditionally given by the parents of the couple. Honestly, it sounds as gauche to me as I'm sure cash-giving sounds to other people. My parents avoid the drama over cash by just not attending weddings where they know they can't afford the kind of cash that is expected. /shrugs

[lady_ganesh]

People's abilities to create conflict are endless, regardless of whether it's cash or goods.

That is so true.

[telophase]

And the corollary to Giving Stuff, which is to Give (non-homemade) Stuff and then never inquire as to why you haven't seen the Stuff displayed or used in their household, as the point is more-or-less to allow the couple to get cash discreetly and gracefully by returning the Stuff to the store.

[lady_ganesh]

Indeed. That's harder with couples from out of town, though easier with the rise of chains.

[oyceter]

I know, right? I also feel kind of bad because I did not realize you are not actually supposed to bring presents to the wedding even though there is a person there for them! I actually went out of my way to get something from a store and wrap it, heh.

But OMG yes re: how much to give. I always overhear my parents discussing this whenever they are invited to a wedding and weighing all the things like who the person is and how much they socialize and etc etc etc.

[troisroyaumes]

I...did not know that about wedding presents either! Good to know if I ever go to a wedding that doesn't have at least one person of East Asian descent involved. (So far, the only white friend who had a wedding got married to an Asian-American and expressly asked all the guests to only give cash as she was being stationed overseas.)

Nod, same for my parents! They also discuss who else is invited and how rich the family is to try to figure out how much they need to give to meet the "average" amount. I still don't know how they decide though; each time I've attended a wedding, I've had to call my mother to determine what range I should aim for.

[oyceter]

Yes! Apparently you are not supposed to because it is inconvenient! And send it to the couple's (future) address. And I was all *boggle* because like I said, I actually got physical gifts a day or so ahead so it didn't look like I had completely forgotten to get people things for the wedding, even though I totally had. And not only could I have just ordered stuff online and had it shipped after the event, that's apparently what's correct! WTH.

I mean, thankfully all of them went to couples where at least one if not both people were Asian-Am, but I do know some are much more USized than others? SO CONFUSING /o\ I think this is stuff I was hoping would be addressed in a wedding etiquette guide, because these are the questions I have. But not a lot of it was addressed... or if it was, it wasn't in a really satisfactory way that made me feel like it wasn't just "MY ETIKETT IS PATSED ON YAY."

I think I called about ten different people to ask for a friend's wedding and then we had a big debate if it was ok to just write a check and put it in an envelope or if it should be cash and what if all you had was crinkly old cash and not nice crisp new cash gaaaaaah.

[troisroyaumes]

Ugh, yes, the whole "How U.S. Americanized is this going to be?" thing trips me up every time. It's so different from person to person and from couple to couple.

I fall under the "go to the bank to get crisp new bills" side...I do that when presenting money to my parents too. I like to put it in one of those money greeting cards--so handy!

[via_ostiense]

Apparently you are not supposed to because it is inconvenient! And send it to the couple's (future) address.

This is what I love about online registries -- the couple says what address they want the stuff to be sent to, so all I have to do is choose an item off the registry and pay for it, and the shipping and delivery location are all taken care of, easy-peasy.

When I was in college and an acquaintance was getting married, I also liked that online registries provided the option of buying one wineglass out of a desired set of eight, because it meant I could afford to get him and his spouse a present. A lot of the college crowd did that, buying one or two items that were part of a set, and the couple got their eight wine glasses and six plates and whatever the heck else they wanted, in the end, without any of us overstretching our budgets.

Random other online registry stories: when a classmate and a TA from college got married, I heard about it from a mutual friend, and because they had an online registry, I was able to buy them a present. I'm not sure they remembered who I was, though, because I never got a thank you note. It was sort of an impulse purchase. Online registries --> bonus presents from acquaintances!

On the flip side, when two of C's friends got married, we looked at their registry and decided there was nothing on it that we wanted to buy for them (90% fancy kitchen stuff that this couple would never have used). When they moved to CA, we got them nice wine instead, which they liked.

[lady_ganesh]

I am from the Northeast and I have literally never been to a wedding where there haven't been presents at either the wedding or reception. (Because my people are passive aggressive, this also includes 'no gifts please' ceremonies.)