Where is your line? (HP wankery)
Tue, Jul. 31st, 2007 03:18 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
oyceterI am using "wankery" specifically to refer to the DD mods and those who are defending them.
Coming in a little late, given that they finally apologized and retracted the tag, but I am feeling a desperate need to blow off steam.
A few more squares people have hit for White Liberal Bingo (caution, do not read if you want to keep your blood pressure down):
I haven't got a link to the ones saying 4. "The mods meant no harm! They had good intentions, and therefore they are not being racist!" or the ones saying, 5. "![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
witchqueen's tone was too aggressive; who can fault the mods for acting as they did." Dig around in her comments and I'm sure you'll find both. If not, just surf around a little.
ETA: all the links to above posts were public at the time I wrote this, which is how I got the quotes.
I seriously doubt anyone needs my reply to these, but I am still so pissed off that I am throwing them in as a bonus!
So:
1. No. Calling someone "racist" is not the same as calling someone "nigger." In fact, it is so far from that that conflating the two is insulting. For one, calling someone "racist" has never been used as a means to enforce centuries of racial oppression; it has not been used as a derogatory term in hundreds of thousands of lynchings, rapes, and beatings; it has not been used to legally deny the personhood of an entire group of people. Maybe you might think it is the same because it causes you to feel defensive. But in the long run? Your defensiveness is not the same as institutional racism. (ETA3: My apologies, I read the original quote wrong.)
2. First, ascoffeeandink notes, this is not true. Second, what kind of a response is that? If I accidentally use a word that is offensive and has been used in racist laws in another country, and if someone in that country tells me the word is offensive, please switch to a neutral one, my response should never be: "Well, it's not offensive where I am! Neener!" Even if I feel strongly that I have to use the word, like if there is no good substitute and people in my country will associate it with something entirely different, if I am using it in a way that anyone from that country could see it, my response would be to add a footnote noting that the term is offensive and that it should generally not be used, but that I am using it in "xxx" way. And given that we are in the internet age, I would damn well footnote it. Also, this completely discounts that a neutral word exists and that zvi suggested it.
3. This one goes even further up the comment stream, but I highlighted this because WOW! WTF?! Also, check out the response. "People were being killed on a regular basis, not let into the majority of public facilities- now people are called names. [...] but you have to let it go- say DAMN that was offensive and go on." Where have I heard that one before? I'm TOO ANGRY?! What she's basically saying is: calling people racial slurs or contributing to a racist environment is such a non-offense that you should immediately forgive and forget and never try to address the wrong. "THAT's it? Some names? [...] People are constantly disparaged- pick any person, and you can say something about them." is the question. It is never just some names. It is never "everyone is constantly disparaged." Because while everyone might be disparaged, the implicit power involved in oppression means that when the dominant group disparages the minority group, it is ten times more serious. And when you let people know that it is ok to keep doing that, when you come down on those who are protesting instead of those who are causing hurt, you are basically stating that your community values that peace over standing up to racism.
Also, anyone who tells me to stop being angry because I was not killed or my life was not threatened FAILS AT LIFE, particularly when they are telling me how to fight racism and lecturing me on the Asian-American community while also saying how the use of racially offensive words is ok.
4. After a while, all the good intentions in the world don't mean anything. For me, and for a lot of people, that moment is when someone is told that they are hurting someone, and instead of apologizing and trying to stop, they instead attempt to justify their right to hurt other people. At that moment, they are no longer well meaning; they have no good intentions. They are deliberately embarking on a course that they know is offensive, and as far as I can tell, that is entirely outside of the realm of "good intentions" and "well meaning."
5. As for this, I ditto annavtree and ficbyzee. And I add that zvi's letters were amazingly restrained, and that she is being more polite even now.
That aside, the real post I wanted to make was: Where is your line?
One of the things that was maddening about the DD mods' response was that they had had a discussion with the entire comm about it, and their decision to ignorewitchqueen's request was backed by the comm. Furthermore, when this got out, you had people using all the above arguments in an attempt to say that the mods, the comm, and the mods' decision was not racist.
So I ask people, particularly those who stayed in the comm through all this, the people who joined the comm during this, and the people who defended it: where is your line when it comes to racism? And I am not asking this as a rhetorical question.
But seriously. When do you decide that you will not be complicit? And yes, by standing by and letting it happen, by actively supporting it in comments and posts, you are complicit. At what point do you start to feel hypocritical by saying you're not a racist when you let racial epithets slide by, when you excuse people for being well meaning, when the only time you speak up is to defend white privilege and argue with POC and allies, or when you ignore what POC and their allies are saying? When do you take a stand?
Are you only taking a stand when you have nothing to lose, personally? Will you do it with strangers, but not your friends? Will you sigh at the occasional newspaper report of a hate crime and then go back to ignoring it when it is right in your internet backyard? When does it become as much a part in your life as it is in mine?
This is in part an accusation; I have been sickened by how willingly people jumped to defend the DD mods given all the evidence at hand. This is also an exploration: I have my own lines. I will not, for example, argue racism or sexism or homophobism with my parents and the older generation of my family, not after so many failed attempts before. And every day I make the choice to continue to partake or not in media that ignores people like me or uses them only as stereotypical supporting characters. More often than not, I choose to partake because I still would like to be able to communicate with fandom at large.
But this is a choice. And while making this choice, I also choose to critique what I watch and what I read because even as I derive pleasure from reading and watching things, because without doing that, I feel like I am uncritically consuming and potentially implicitly supporting them.
Please note I am not saying that everyone has to do this. Sometimes I choose not to read about what's going in the anti-racist blogosphere because I cannot take being this angry all the time. I think allies and fen of color desperately need breaks from fighting this all the time. But the thing is, I am not seeing people consciously choosing to not engage so they can conserve energy for later. I am seeing people blindly react to something of theirs being taken away (the right to use racist words as long as no one means it, or no one knows).
Furthermore, I've seen the argument that the mods and the comm is not racist several times. To which I ask again: where is your line? If someone is using a racist term, ignoring POC and anti-racist allies, further claiming that they are enitrely justified, then continues to use the term, and that is not racist, then I ask, what is? And will you actually do something when it is? Or will you just sit by and say that the nooses on the tree were just a joke, and really it was the black kids' fault for sitting there anyway? Because no matter what the offense is, no matter how serious it is, I have seen people pass it off as a joke, pass it off as "Oh, they didn't mean it," pass it off as "You are too sensitive. You should forgive and forget."
I fully understand the need for discourse and how saying someone's actions are racist can be a way to make them listen more than saying they're a racist. But when people end up supporting racist actions and behaviors, condoning them behind the scenes, or actively work to uphold them, yes, they are racists. They are upholding the racial social order which keeps white people at the top; they are enforcing their own privilege.
ETA2: Also, I totally forgot because I was so mad! I wanted to thank my flist, people commenting here, and my friendsof-list for being sane and calling the DD mods and others on their stupidity and their racist behavior. You guys are awesome.
Coming in a little late, given that they finally apologized and retracted the tag, but I am feeling a desperate need to blow off steam.
A few more squares people have hit for White Liberal Bingo (caution, do not read if you want to keep your blood pressure down):
ETA4:1. "I won't concede to being called a racist, whose use of a word is the same as calling people the 'n' word, because it's not true." here(misquoted, my apologies)
The new 1. "To my mind, calling someone a racist is a huge deal, a very, very serious insult. It is one of the biggest possible attacks on a person's integrity. It is equivalent to calling a black person the N-word - not in terms of function, but in terms of affective connotation, pure strength of insult." here
2. "And, whilst one is properly cognisant, in a thoroughly Hufflepuffian way, of other's cultural sensitivities, it really is a bit much to be told something is inexorably racist when it isn't used that way in oooh possibly the majority of the world." here
3. "But younger generations, 40 or less, I see it more as a battle of classism rising in America [...] So, for younger generations, I really do think holding grievances is a form of racism, and it results in angry, angry, ANGRY people. People become disproportionally angry to the amount of racism they ACTUALLY encounter." here
I haven't got a link to the ones saying 4. "The mods meant no harm! They had good intentions, and therefore they are not being racist!" or the ones saying, 5. "
witchqueen's tone was too aggressive; who can fault the mods for acting as they did." Dig around in her comments and I'm sure you'll find both. If not, just surf around a little. ETA: all the links to above posts were public at the time I wrote this, which is how I got the quotes.
I seriously doubt anyone needs my reply to these, but I am still so pissed off that I am throwing them in as a bonus!
So:
1. No. Calling someone "racist" is not the same as calling someone "nigger." In fact, it is so far from that that conflating the two is insulting. For one, calling someone "racist" has never been used as a means to enforce centuries of racial oppression; it has not been used as a derogatory term in hundreds of thousands of lynchings, rapes, and beatings; it has not been used to legally deny the personhood of an entire group of people. Maybe you might think it is the same because it causes you to feel defensive. But in the long run? Your defensiveness is not the same as institutional racism. (ETA3: My apologies, I read the original quote wrong.)
2. First, as
coffeeandink notes, this is not true. Second, what kind of a response is that? If I accidentally use a word that is offensive and has been used in racist laws in another country, and if someone in that country tells me the word is offensive, please switch to a neutral one, my response should never be: "Well, it's not offensive where I am! Neener!" Even if I feel strongly that I have to use the word, like if there is no good substitute and people in my country will associate it with something entirely different, if I am using it in a way that anyone from that country could see it, my response would be to add a footnote noting that the term is offensive and that it should generally not be used, but that I am using it in "xxx" way. And given that we are in the internet age, I would damn well footnote it. Also, this completely discounts that a neutral word exists and that zvi suggested it.3. This one goes even further up the comment stream, but I highlighted this because WOW! WTF?! Also, check out the response. "People were being killed on a regular basis, not let into the majority of public facilities- now people are called names. [...] but you have to let it go- say DAMN that was offensive and go on." Where have I heard that one before? I'm TOO ANGRY?! What she's basically saying is: calling people racial slurs or contributing to a racist environment is such a non-offense that you should immediately forgive and forget and never try to address the wrong. "THAT's it? Some names? [...] People are constantly disparaged- pick any person, and you can say something about them." is the question. It is never just some names. It is never "everyone is constantly disparaged." Because while everyone might be disparaged, the implicit power involved in oppression means that when the dominant group disparages the minority group, it is ten times more serious. And when you let people know that it is ok to keep doing that, when you come down on those who are protesting instead of those who are causing hurt, you are basically stating that your community values that peace over standing up to racism.
Also, anyone who tells me to stop being angry because I was not killed or my life was not threatened FAILS AT LIFE, particularly when they are telling me how to fight racism and lecturing me on the Asian-American community while also saying how the use of racially offensive words is ok.
4. After a while, all the good intentions in the world don't mean anything. For me, and for a lot of people, that moment is when someone is told that they are hurting someone, and instead of apologizing and trying to stop, they instead attempt to justify their right to hurt other people. At that moment, they are no longer well meaning; they have no good intentions. They are deliberately embarking on a course that they know is offensive, and as far as I can tell, that is entirely outside of the realm of "good intentions" and "well meaning."
5. As for this, I ditto annavtree and ficbyzee. And I add that zvi's letters were amazingly restrained, and that she is being more polite even now.
That aside, the real post I wanted to make was: Where is your line?
One of the things that was maddening about the DD mods' response was that they had had a discussion with the entire comm about it, and their decision to ignore
witchqueen's request was backed by the comm. Furthermore, when this got out, you had people using all the above arguments in an attempt to say that the mods, the comm, and the mods' decision was not racist. So I ask people, particularly those who stayed in the comm through all this, the people who joined the comm during this, and the people who defended it: where is your line when it comes to racism? And I am not asking this as a rhetorical question.
But seriously. When do you decide that you will not be complicit? And yes, by standing by and letting it happen, by actively supporting it in comments and posts, you are complicit. At what point do you start to feel hypocritical by saying you're not a racist when you let racial epithets slide by, when you excuse people for being well meaning, when the only time you speak up is to defend white privilege and argue with POC and allies, or when you ignore what POC and their allies are saying? When do you take a stand?
Are you only taking a stand when you have nothing to lose, personally? Will you do it with strangers, but not your friends? Will you sigh at the occasional newspaper report of a hate crime and then go back to ignoring it when it is right in your internet backyard? When does it become as much a part in your life as it is in mine?
This is in part an accusation; I have been sickened by how willingly people jumped to defend the DD mods given all the evidence at hand. This is also an exploration: I have my own lines. I will not, for example, argue racism or sexism or homophobism with my parents and the older generation of my family, not after so many failed attempts before. And every day I make the choice to continue to partake or not in media that ignores people like me or uses them only as stereotypical supporting characters. More often than not, I choose to partake because I still would like to be able to communicate with fandom at large.
But this is a choice. And while making this choice, I also choose to critique what I watch and what I read because even as I derive pleasure from reading and watching things, because without doing that, I feel like I am uncritically consuming and potentially implicitly supporting them.
Please note I am not saying that everyone has to do this. Sometimes I choose not to read about what's going in the anti-racist blogosphere because I cannot take being this angry all the time. I think allies and fen of color desperately need breaks from fighting this all the time. But the thing is, I am not seeing people consciously choosing to not engage so they can conserve energy for later. I am seeing people blindly react to something of theirs being taken away (the right to use racist words as long as no one means it, or no one knows).
Furthermore, I've seen the argument that the mods and the comm is not racist several times. To which I ask again: where is your line? If someone is using a racist term, ignoring POC and anti-racist allies, further claiming that they are enitrely justified, then continues to use the term, and that is not racist, then I ask, what is? And will you actually do something when it is? Or will you just sit by and say that the nooses on the tree were just a joke, and really it was the black kids' fault for sitting there anyway? Because no matter what the offense is, no matter how serious it is, I have seen people pass it off as a joke, pass it off as "Oh, they didn't mean it," pass it off as "You are too sensitive. You should forgive and forget."
I fully understand the need for discourse and how saying someone's actions are racist can be a way to make them listen more than saying they're a racist. But when people end up supporting racist actions and behaviors, condoning them behind the scenes, or actively work to uphold them, yes, they are racists. They are upholding the racial social order which keeps white people at the top; they are enforcing their own privilege.
ETA2: Also, I totally forgot because I was so mad! I wanted to thank my flist, people commenting here, and my friendsof-list for being sane and calling the DD mods and others on their stupidity and their racist behavior. You guys are awesome.
Tags:
(no subject)
Tue, Jul. 31st, 2007 10:42 pm (UTC)Which is, I can and often do simply turn away from racism, rather than challenge it, if it's happening in a community that's "not mine." Harry Potter fandom, for instance. Or, well, pretty much any fandom, at this point; or any on-line forums outside of my tiny flist (which is a pretty anti-racist zone, on the whole). I *do* challenge racism (if, being a clueless white girl, I am aware of it, or if it is brought to my attention) when it happens in my literary community, or in my church, or some other community that I think of as "mine."
Now, as I said above, this is not necessarily a good line to draw. Maybe sometimes it's the better thing to do, because voices from inside carry more weight than voices of interlopers, but other times it's just lazy, just a way of choosing not to make an effort. (It's also interesting that I structure it, in my mind, around a framework of "my group"/"not my group", which is of course also the fundamental dynamic of racism among other things).
Anyway, at least I have a bit more clarity about the choices I've been making, so thank you for making me think about that.
(I also really wish I could lay my hands on a couple of things -- a very funny and very cutting cartoon a friend of mine did some years ago when the alleged scourge of "political correctness" was getting so much play in the media; and a transcript of an interview with one of the Canadian soldiers tangentially involved with the torture and murder of Somalis, as he struggles to define what he thinks "racism" means. I've been searching for both & failing to find them.)
(no subject)
Tue, Jul. 31st, 2007 10:46 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Tue, Jul. 31st, 2007 10:54 pm (UTC)The cartoon and transcript sound awesome.
(no subject)
Tue, Jul. 31st, 2007 10:54 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Tue, Jul. 31st, 2007 10:55 pm (UTC)I wish my line? (I think of it as a three-dimensional shell, actually, but let the math metaphors rest) is narrower than I'd like it to be; I am impressed by people (including yourself!) who post at length on anti-racism. I have, by and large, not been one of those people. The extent of my involvement has been to try to publicize instances of racism (as well as the often excellent analyses of racist behavior)--I may not be very eloquent when it comes to matters of race, because my reaction to stupidity is frequently to withdraw in confusion, but my LJ theoretically reaches a fair number of people, and the least I can do is make it a space where anti-racism is established as a desired norm. Now, I don't know how many people actually read the anti-racism content or follow those links. But it's there for the following.
For various reasons I have felt it inadvisable to get involved in arguments on other people's LJs (I'm not saying this is a bad thing to do in general, but that I do not feel comfortable doing so myself), especially when the LJ belongs to someone I don't know. But I hope I will be braver in posting anti-racist content on my own LJ and opening up more discussion there, as time and energy permit. Thank you for making me think about this.
(no subject)
Tue, Jul. 31st, 2007 11:03 pm (UTC)It's not a flattering myth, this idea that we all feel vaguely ashamed and narcissistically anxious about giving unintended offense, but it sure is a prevalent and zealously-promoted one.
But wow, that's not true at all. People will sit there and be called racist all day -- "not looking racist" is pretty much a zero priority next to "not having to back down." Our famous White Liberal Guilt = kind of not all that real.
(I mean -- obviously this mythic and wondrous WLGuilt is tedious, self-centered, and not very helpful, but at least it entails knowing that if you do certain things, you should feel bad about them.)
that's why my Privilege Analogy #1 has
Tue, Jul. 31st, 2007 11:08 pm (UTC)My line...
Tue, Jul. 31st, 2007 11:16 pm (UTC)My involvement in this issue has been peripheral. I have read thousands of words about this, on and off my flist, and been outraged. I have commented on a few of the posts I've read, expressing support for those of us who are going OMGWTF at the stupidity, racial insensitivity, and just plain hidebound cluelessness of the DD mods and their supporters. When DD posted their apology and announcement that they were changing the term, I thanked them for doing the right thing. That's been the extent of my engaging on it.
It's easy to say "oh, I'm busy at work" or "it's not my fandom anyway", but all excuses aside, I didn't feel comfortable composing a post about it myself, largely because I didn't feel like I had anything original to say on the subject, and partly because I didn't want to deal with the emotional impact of the comments that would inevitably follow such a post.
Since IBARW last year, my major contribution (such as it is) to discourse about race has been seeking and reading/listening to the words of people of color. I am trying to listen and trying to learn. I'm trying to speak when it's appropriate, and to shut up when my voice is not of value. I am, finally, trying to get better about telling the difference between those two states!
Unlike last year, I am actually going to post for IBARW this year, but it will be primarily to direct folks to the words of people of color, rather than making it all about me and my whiteness. This much I have learned in the past year.
Obviously a single week of posts is insufficient to combat, or even really address, racism. It's clear to me now that I should have found a way to post on this issue earlier, to add my voice to those who were outraged. My few comments were not enough.
I've spent all day thinking about this. That's not enough either.
(no subject)
Tue, Jul. 31st, 2007 11:19 pm (UTC)>> Are you only taking a stand when you have nothing to lose, personally? Will you do it with strangers, but not your friends? Will you sigh at the occasional newspaper report of a hate crime and then go back to ignoring it when it is right in your internet backyard? When does it become as much a part in your life as it is in mine? <<
Since I have started watching your blog, I have become much more self-conscious about this whole topic. And I wonder whether I have self-selected safe, cozy online hangouts where I won't have to think about this, or whether I am instead being as willfully blind as the people discussed earlier in your space, who claimed that there was (for example) no racism in the U.K.
:-(
(no subject)
Tue, Jul. 31st, 2007 11:20 pm (UTC)But in part, because I have a handful of RL people who are effectively family who I just *don't* want to have to beat myself against a brick wall in dealing with again who read my LJ. Which one reason is why the non-show-specific race-related posts I have made have been comments off. I get furiously, helplessly angry, and I don't want to engage that way in my own space.
I think most of my lines are drawn by my blood pressure.
Much of what I love is well-meaning, but ultimately clueless. I choose to read and view problematic texts, but I own that they are often problematic, rather than claiming that they're perfectly fine. This doesn't mean I'm always clear-eyed about the problematic aspects (see the blood pressure line); I will give more points than I should for effort, partly for my own false peace of mind.
(no subject)
Tue, Jul. 31st, 2007 11:25 pm (UTC)Sure you can call yourself anti-racist but you have to back that shit up. Calling yourself anti-racist cause you never used a racial epithet (where PoC could hear you) does not cut it. You have to not condone the racism around you, you have to actively work to fight against it not only in your own mind but in the minds of others.
In particular about the person who got stoopid with you the idea that class is all we have to worry about is what a lot of people use so that they don't have to think about race/gender/ableism/sexual orientation and how all of these things intersect. Yes class is something we have to deal with and something that our society has inevitably tried not to deal with but the idea that classcism is the only problem nowadays is so idiotic it made my IQ go down a couple points.
Also the whole "too angry" thing is a silencing technique a way to try and make you feel like you're being unreasonable and they're just the soul of propriety. Also why shouldn't we all be angry. Personally I get angry at injustice if someone doesn't well I have to wonder at what kind of person they are.
(sorry for the length, guess I'm just too angry)
(no subject)
Tue, Jul. 31st, 2007 11:26 pm (UTC)In real life, that's easy to answer. I don't. If I see it (and I don't always see it because I'm still working on my own racism), I call it. Although that happens less frequently these days because I am highly limited in terms of mobility, and most of the people I interact with now are friends, and if they were prone to ignoring racism in themselves and in the world, they wouldn't be friends.
Because - and I am not equating these with racism, but noting similarities in the struggles against different kinds of oppression - I am queer and disabled and a woman, I do see how pervasive sexist, homophobic and ablist thinking and speaking and acting is, and I know that, like that associated with otherr forms of privilege and power, racist thinking and speaking and acting is woven into the fabric of my society and how I've been raised, and I know that speaking up is something that has to be done in any case of privilege or oppression.
In real life, when a stranger comments on privileged speech or acts (racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, ablist, etc.) - especially ones that come from ignorance - sometimes it gets heard more loudly, especially if the stranger has a similar privileged status, which I do in some cases as a cisgendered white person. So it's important, I believe, to speak to what you see, whether it is something that affects you directly and personally or not.
It's different on-line. I sometimes blog about issues of privilege and oppression, when my mind and fingers are working well. And I'll speak about it in the (relatively few) communities where I participate. And I watch some communities that discuss issues of privilege that I am working on in myself so that I can learn without imposing, if that makes any sense - I don't want to go into a community of, say people who are mostly of colour, or transfolk, and say "I'm here, teach me" - but if they allow me to observe, I'll do so gratefully.
But I don't know whether going into a community that one has never been a part of to protest offensive speech is effective. And because my disabilities limit all of my social interactions, both in person and online, I have to pick my battles sometimes.
(no subject)
Tue, Jul. 31st, 2007 11:33 pm (UTC)That is beyond infuriating. As is much, if not all, of this entire debacle.
(no subject)
Tue, Jul. 31st, 2007 11:38 pm (UTC)OMG, you and I are the same person. ::points up::
(no subject)
Tue, Jul. 31st, 2007 11:38 pm (UTC)As for my own line, that is likely going to come out in a more detailed post I am currently planning to make next week, but the short version is that I have come to believe both that silence implies consent and that "colorblindness" is in fact being blind, and neither is acceptable for me to exhibit in my own behavior and life.
(no subject)
Tue, Jul. 31st, 2007 11:59 pm (UTC)I used to engage in public online discussions of racism. The last time was during the Katrina aftermath. I became so angry and overwhelmed at failing (in this case failing to convince someone of the racist nature of the response to the disaster) that I quit politics altogether. I will, sometimes, engage in discussions of racism in art, but not arguments with racists. It makes me feel wishy-washy and weak, but it's true. The other reason I am increasingly unwilling to engage as deeply as I used to, is that I don't feel it's my place. I don't want to drown out more valid voices of PoC. I'm rethinking my approach, especially with IBARW coming up, but mostly I still think I'd do better to keep listening.
My biggest line is not tolerating racism in the workplace. I get shit for this, but it's an area I feel I have both responsibility and power to make a difference. My line here is very firm, up to and including step physically between my employee and the person being a racist asshole. I do what I can to foster a safe workplace environment.
I try to stand behind my friends and family, some of whom are PoC, listen to what they say, and reconsider my views and change my actions. I quit shopping at a store because a friend told me she'd been treated rudely there for being black. I don't know that it makes a whit of difference, but I feel once I know, I can't go back to not knowing. If that makes sense. I try to watch how my actions affect others. However, I feel weak adding this, but I do sometimes (often?) hide my head in the sand for my mental health; I don't watch the news, don't read fandomwank, quit reading journals I know now are going to piss me off, etc. I feel really really bad about this, but do it anyway.
(no subject)
Wed, Aug. 1st, 2007 12:03 am (UTC)First, there's risk. Something like DD mess is very low risk for me for a variety of reasons. Harry Potter, after all, isn't one of my fandoms, and none of my close friends are active in it. I don't know what I'd do if I were faced with real risk-- If I had fear that, for example, my daughter would be ostracized at school or treated poorly by her teachers because of my words or actions. If I had fear that somebody'd put a rock through one of our windows or torch our house.
Second, there's energy, physical, emotional and intellectual. I have, as all of us do, finite resources. Sometimes, I choose to put my energy into something else. I will always wonder when I'm doing that from necessity and when I'm doing it from cowardice or aversion to pain.
Third, there's immediacy. Something that's affecting a person near to me-- by affection, by geography, by other factors-- looms larger than something at a greater remove. That is, if it affects my niece, I'm going to be loud and out front. If it affects my neighbor, I'm going to ask what I can do to help. If it affects a stranger or if the effect isn't clear to me... I don't know.
Fourth, there's whether or not I actually understand what's going on. Or even perceive it. I'm not stupid, but I am white and therefore privileged. At this point, I'm tending to assume that, if I'm bothered by something and wondering if it's racist, it probably is. I wouldn't notice otherwise. Likewise, if a lot of people of color are saying that there's a problem then-- even if I don't see it or understand it-- the problem's almost certainly there. (I qualify that last largely because I hate making absolute statements.)
(no subject)
Wed, Aug. 1st, 2007 12:19 am (UTC)Online, well, online is sticky. Because, I often do not know people well. If I'm involved with a fandom or community, I will for sure speak up. If I'm not involved in a fandom or community, I use the following as my line for participation: If jumping in and commenting in addition to those that already commented is more about my ego and making myself look good or dutiful than it is about actual justice, it's not a good idea to participate. If my participation adds something that helps the fight and helps other people, then it's worthwhile to post. Not that I always succeed in getting rid of the ego or cool aspect. It's a goal.
In this particular case, I read everything and supported those I knew in other fora, but I felt that the topic was being well defended by the time I arrived on the scene, and that my jumping in on people's journals would be a matter of egotism.
Anyhow, I find it easier to draw lines IRL.
(no subject)
Wed, Aug. 1st, 2007 12:41 am (UTC)I can't take on everything though, and talking about it won't do any good.
Interestingly, she knows how I feel and will sort of brag to me when she works on things herself, which is cute and weirdly effective in its own way (ie, she recognizes she will get a LOT of positive feedback from me for challenging her own stuff).
(no subject)
Wed, Aug. 1st, 2007 12:43 am (UTC)I just wanted to say thank you for posting this. I'm another of the rare-ish POC in fandom and it's interesting (in a morbid sort of way) to see how people are actually defending this occurrence, and the twisted rationale they're using. But it's also reassuring to see people getting outraged about it.
(no subject)
Wed, Aug. 1st, 2007 03:00 am (UTC)The line is hard. One of yours is pretty much one of mine: my parents. There are things I can't do, like have a reasoned discussion with my father (he's not so good at the listening bit), and there are things I can, like stand up for my non-Korean sister-in-law. I pick my battles, and sometimes that makes me end up feeling like a coward.
Online fandom is different. Sometimes it feels necessary to speak out, because shame is one tool at our disposable in fighting racist fuckwittery. And then sometimes you hang there, wondering, "Do I need to pile on? Have enough other people made my point? Should I wait and see? Do I need to speak out and challenge that person? Is it appropriate for me to comment in this space? Should I move my comment to my own journal?"
And I try to make my best guess at the best approach and muddle on from there. I am pretty damn sure that I sometimes end up clicking away from conversations out of cowardice or apathy. I guess all I can say is that I hope I do it less than I used to.
(no subject)
Wed, Aug. 1st, 2007 03:44 am (UTC)"And every day I make the choice to continue to partake or not in media that ignores people like me or uses them only as stereotypical supporting characters. More often than not, I choose to partake because I still would like to be able to communicate with fandom at large."
This really struck home for me, especially as a Firefly and comics fan. My answer's always been to enjoy the media, but remain conscious of the fact that there are problematic, often severely, elements - and to comment on them.
Thank you for this post, and the others you make. Even though I just randomly showed up, I appreciate that you make critique like this available.
(no subject)
Wed, Aug. 1st, 2007 04:49 am (UTC)(no subject)
Wed, Aug. 1st, 2007 04:55 am (UTC)I've been thinking about this a lot in the context of my work, in part from being challenged by colleagues who are people of color. And I've been trying to shift the scope of my engagement beyond reactivity (i.e. only when prompted by external event/speech/etc., like the DD example) to also include more proactive anti-racist engagements (i.e. seeking/creating opportunities to make the world a better place, hokey as that sounds). As a white person, I abdicate a lot of responsibility if I confine myself just to not doing racist stuff and not supporting racism or opposing it when I see it. I can do more than that, and I worry that I've succumbed to fatalism about the prospect of major change in my lifetime.
(no subject)
Wed, Aug. 1st, 2007 05:02 am (UTC)My intentional line is always right in front of me, but I fail it too often. Sometimes due to lack of time, sometimes due to lack of courage and fear of loss.