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Entry tags:
Thoughts on religion and belief
First things first: apparently Angel's been renewed! WOOHOO!!!! I still have a Joss show on TV!
And now, for more serious matters:
Inspired by scrollgirl's entry
I grew up with a lot of Christian friends and was technically raised Christian -- I read all the Bible stories in my Children's Bible, went to church and Bible study on Sundays -- everyone I knew back in Colorado was Christian. The Chinese Christian community, you know?
Then we moved to Taiwan. And all the people I knew weren't Christian even though a good deal of them were. And I've never really personally believed in God or in Jesus, especially when I hit puberty. My sister says I told her once in eighth grade that all religions were stupid (I don't remember this at all). And it was always strange, reconciling the familial (my mother is Christian and my sister really affirmed herself as a Christian in high school) pressure and belief that I was a Christian -- my mother simply assumes and my sister gently pushes it at me -- with my complete lack of belief. My father's not really anything at all, kind of like me. And, well, I don't know. Sometimes I feel as though it would be easier to be Christian, because there's this set structure to follow and there's the faith aspect. I've always wanted to have faith in something, to not have a nihilistic view of the world. And sometimes I wonder about all religions, if they're merely a way for people to make sense of the universe and of themselves, a reassurance instead of Truth. It was strange when I landed in college and found my mother urging me to join some Christian fellowships here to make friends, because by that time, I'd already associated myself with pretty much not being Christian. I didn't believe. And many of the people I personally met in college were suprisingly more religious than I thought, and many of them were also surprisingly more areligious than I thought. And yes, one of the things that disturbed me most about the areligious ones was that a few of them were pretty vehemently anti-Christian. Well, to me, it seems kind of silly to cast stereotypes on all of Christianity on account of persecution of other religions in the past... I mean, isn't that kind of on the same boat?
Anyway. My friends here introduced me to strange new age things like tarot. I learned more about Buddhism and the origins of the New Testament here (should have taken more religion courses, argh!). And in general, I try to have faith in something, but it's definitely a faith of my own choosing. It's not strict paganism like some of my friends, and it's definitely not Christianity. It's strange, because one of my Christian friends back in high school told me that she felt that not choosing to be Christian was an easier choice than being Christian. Understandably, I had a problem with that. Being Christian seems to come with the problems of absolute faith and belief, especially now, with Darwin and feminism and some kind of archaic notions in the Bible (a lot of my Christian friends have gone through a sort of shaky period in high school/college). But I always felt the great part about it was getting this build in system of belief and this built in community. And kind of knowing your own relationship with the larger universe/God. And being not Christian, yeah, there's no need to struggle with the Bible, but there's also that lack of connection into something bigger that has always been problematic for me.
I really don't know what I'm saying with this. I know I'd like to have faith in something, in something that's larger than me, in something that makes this sometimes crazy place make sense. And despite knowing that Christianity isn't for me, there's something about having that faith and that belief in God that really strikes a chord in me. I use Christinity in this case because that's the largest single group of people I personally know who have this characteristic. All the rest are generally atheists. Then there's my pagan friend and her family who believe in a greater good that's not necessarily the Christian God, which is cool too. Something about faith and about being able to hand one's life to something higher, the belief that somewhere out there, there's an intelligence or a being larger and much much smarter and wiser than us, is extremely appealing. And I admire the people who have that faith, which is why I have a problem with people calling other people "religious fanatics" or assuming that being religious immediately means irrationality or something. But then, there's always the problem with people trying to convert me, which I really hate (constant injunctions to go to church, etc). And there are the questions of real belief and pushing that on to others -- if you know deep in your heart what you believe is true, is it wrong to try to convince others of this? What if they also know that what they believe is true? What about fundamentalists and using religion for war? What about self and free will and interpersonal relationships?
I don't think my sister thinks that I think about religion at all. And yeah, it does bother me when she gently nudges me toward prayer or church or God or something as a means of solving my own problems, because that's not the solution that fits me. I guess it's kind of like that (potentially offensive) question of homosexuality: "Honey, have you ever tried not being gay?" -- I say potentially because I personally don't have a problem with the question "Have you ever tried not being heterosexual?" because, honestly, no, I haven't, and hey, not ruling out any options here. But I can see why the question is often seen as threatening and condescending. But then, the question can always be turned around... have you ever tried not being Christian? To each his own.
Reading Madeleine L'Engle's Genesis trilogy (And It Was Good, Stone for a Pillow, and Sold into Egypt) made me think a lot... she's a Christian writer (obviously), yet her beliefs resonate very much so with me, especially as portrayed in the Time trilogy. But then there are parts in which she asserts that she's not a Universalist, that Christianity is ultimately the only right way to go, that I don't get, especially alongside her arguments that Gandhi and people who have never been exposed to Christianity shouldn't be immediately thought of as worse people. Her views on forgiveness and love and etc. I very much buy into and enjoy and believe in. But my problem is in general the one associated with one God and only one.
Er. There really is no point to all this rambling... just thoughts I've had for a while and finally put down. Thanks very much to![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
scrollgirl for making me think about all this!
And now, for more serious matters:
Inspired by scrollgirl's entry
I grew up with a lot of Christian friends and was technically raised Christian -- I read all the Bible stories in my Children's Bible, went to church and Bible study on Sundays -- everyone I knew back in Colorado was Christian. The Chinese Christian community, you know?
Then we moved to Taiwan. And all the people I knew weren't Christian even though a good deal of them were. And I've never really personally believed in God or in Jesus, especially when I hit puberty. My sister says I told her once in eighth grade that all religions were stupid (I don't remember this at all). And it was always strange, reconciling the familial (my mother is Christian and my sister really affirmed herself as a Christian in high school) pressure and belief that I was a Christian -- my mother simply assumes and my sister gently pushes it at me -- with my complete lack of belief. My father's not really anything at all, kind of like me. And, well, I don't know. Sometimes I feel as though it would be easier to be Christian, because there's this set structure to follow and there's the faith aspect. I've always wanted to have faith in something, to not have a nihilistic view of the world. And sometimes I wonder about all religions, if they're merely a way for people to make sense of the universe and of themselves, a reassurance instead of Truth. It was strange when I landed in college and found my mother urging me to join some Christian fellowships here to make friends, because by that time, I'd already associated myself with pretty much not being Christian. I didn't believe. And many of the people I personally met in college were suprisingly more religious than I thought, and many of them were also surprisingly more areligious than I thought. And yes, one of the things that disturbed me most about the areligious ones was that a few of them were pretty vehemently anti-Christian. Well, to me, it seems kind of silly to cast stereotypes on all of Christianity on account of persecution of other religions in the past... I mean, isn't that kind of on the same boat?
Anyway. My friends here introduced me to strange new age things like tarot. I learned more about Buddhism and the origins of the New Testament here (should have taken more religion courses, argh!). And in general, I try to have faith in something, but it's definitely a faith of my own choosing. It's not strict paganism like some of my friends, and it's definitely not Christianity. It's strange, because one of my Christian friends back in high school told me that she felt that not choosing to be Christian was an easier choice than being Christian. Understandably, I had a problem with that. Being Christian seems to come with the problems of absolute faith and belief, especially now, with Darwin and feminism and some kind of archaic notions in the Bible (a lot of my Christian friends have gone through a sort of shaky period in high school/college). But I always felt the great part about it was getting this build in system of belief and this built in community. And kind of knowing your own relationship with the larger universe/God. And being not Christian, yeah, there's no need to struggle with the Bible, but there's also that lack of connection into something bigger that has always been problematic for me.
I really don't know what I'm saying with this. I know I'd like to have faith in something, in something that's larger than me, in something that makes this sometimes crazy place make sense. And despite knowing that Christianity isn't for me, there's something about having that faith and that belief in God that really strikes a chord in me. I use Christinity in this case because that's the largest single group of people I personally know who have this characteristic. All the rest are generally atheists. Then there's my pagan friend and her family who believe in a greater good that's not necessarily the Christian God, which is cool too. Something about faith and about being able to hand one's life to something higher, the belief that somewhere out there, there's an intelligence or a being larger and much much smarter and wiser than us, is extremely appealing. And I admire the people who have that faith, which is why I have a problem with people calling other people "religious fanatics" or assuming that being religious immediately means irrationality or something. But then, there's always the problem with people trying to convert me, which I really hate (constant injunctions to go to church, etc). And there are the questions of real belief and pushing that on to others -- if you know deep in your heart what you believe is true, is it wrong to try to convince others of this? What if they also know that what they believe is true? What about fundamentalists and using religion for war? What about self and free will and interpersonal relationships?
I don't think my sister thinks that I think about religion at all. And yeah, it does bother me when she gently nudges me toward prayer or church or God or something as a means of solving my own problems, because that's not the solution that fits me. I guess it's kind of like that (potentially offensive) question of homosexuality: "Honey, have you ever tried not being gay?" -- I say potentially because I personally don't have a problem with the question "Have you ever tried not being heterosexual?" because, honestly, no, I haven't, and hey, not ruling out any options here. But I can see why the question is often seen as threatening and condescending. But then, the question can always be turned around... have you ever tried not being Christian? To each his own.
Reading Madeleine L'Engle's Genesis trilogy (And It Was Good, Stone for a Pillow, and Sold into Egypt) made me think a lot... she's a Christian writer (obviously), yet her beliefs resonate very much so with me, especially as portrayed in the Time trilogy. But then there are parts in which she asserts that she's not a Universalist, that Christianity is ultimately the only right way to go, that I don't get, especially alongside her arguments that Gandhi and people who have never been exposed to Christianity shouldn't be immediately thought of as worse people. Her views on forgiveness and love and etc. I very much buy into and enjoy and believe in. But my problem is in general the one associated with one God and only one.
Er. There really is no point to all this rambling... just thoughts I've had for a while and finally put down. Thanks very much to
scrollgirl for making me think about all this!
no subject
I know I'd like to have faith in something, in something that's larger than me, in something that makes this sometimes crazy place make sense. And despite knowing that Christianity isn't for me, there's something about having that faith and that belief in God that really strikes a chord in me.
I'm pretty grateful that I have a church and fellow Christians to support me when I need it, and the community is certainly one of things that make me happy I'm a Christian. But I think these past few years of withdrawing from the community helped me to recognise that my faith wasn't dependent on other people. It was a good learning experience, one I needed. I'm glad to have support, but it's also good to know that my friends' support isn't what makes my faith work.
But I do know what you mean about taking comfort in having a faith where you can trust in some kind of greater meaning or a God that makes the universe make sense. My article got me to realise that I couldn't make sense of everything, but that I could be comfortable trusting that it at least made sense to God. There is a comfort. I do think Christians are lucky in that regard. Being an atheist and facing a existential world in which people are thrown together without any pattern or meaning? That would scare me a lot, I think.
which is why I have a problem with people calling other people "religious fanatics" or assuming that being religious immediately means irrationality or something. But then, there's always the problem with people trying to convert me, which I really hate
Yup, I hate the myth that being religious automatically means you stop thinking for yourself, or that you give up free will. Very much not! But I've mostly given up trying to convert my friends, though if they're honestly seeking I'll of course try to show them why Jesus is important, etc. My thing was, well, their beliefs are important to them, and I wouldn't like people trying to convert me to Islam, so I shouldn't do it to others. But then I think about my friends never knowing God and then going to hell (yeah, I believe in hell, I just don't like thinking about it!) and then I feel guilty that I'm not trying to do more for them. It's very confusing!
L'Engle does throw in bits of mysticism in with her Christianity. I don't mind since I'm not expecting her fiction to be perfect theology :) As for the one God thing, well, I do believe there is only one. I'm still figuring out if people's different concepts for that God can mean that they're really all worshipping the same one. Another headachy question I'll never have the answer to!
no subject
I definitely agree with the conversion. I mean, I see where my sister is coming from, but then, I'm pretty sure she'd very not appreciate it if I tried telling her that Christianity was not the "true religion" and that she should change her ways to be saved! Etc. And there's just general receptiveness to the message.
And it's just silly how people assume being religious means you aren't rational. Yeah, religion involves a great deal that doesn't take place in the rational mind -- isn't the whole point of faith the point that you believe even without proof? But then, I have this general problem with the attitude that everything must be rational and logical, because it doesn't explain many things in my own life. It doesn't tell me why I love people or why certain books hit me.
I never realized L'Engle was a Christian author when I read her books as a kid! Same with C.S. Lewis... I really need to reread Narnia someday and pick up all the symbolism. I adored her books though -- the idea of stars singing, of a warm consciousness to the universe, the prevalence and importance of love in all things. I feel as though her views on religion were much clearer in the Genesis trilogy that I read, which is basically just her thinking about religion and the Bible. She seemed to have many of the problems with the Bible that I did -- why did God harden the Pharoah's heart when that resulted in the death of the Egyptian first born? Why did God allow His people to slaughter others? Why did God have a chosen people in the Old Testament? Most of her thinking revolves around problems with the Old Testament, although I'd be extremely interested to see if she's written anything on the NT.
I just got into reading stuff on gnostic Christianity because of my religion course, and it's fascinating how they deal with the Bible. There's this one school that sees the Old Testament God as a kind of lower being who was born of Wisdom/Sophia and tries to deny it by saying He's the only God. And schools that say God must have a feminine and masculine aspect... I really want to learn more about this.
I've always wondered if there's a real God/Goddess/great creative lifeforce out there who just laughs at our little world because we all argue about who's right when we all basically believe in the same thing.
no subject
Heh, I love Angel's epiphany, I use it whenever I'm trying to explain the pros of existentialism to my Christian friends :) Even though I don't believe in existentialism in that I do think there is a greater meaning, I like how he says the smallest act of kindness can be the greatest thing in the world.
I knew Lewis was a Christian, but I think it was "Many Waters" that finally clued me into L'Engle being one too. Just the fact that she wrote about Biblical characters (which, until I read that book, I thought should always remain safely in the Bible) made me wonder what she really believed.
She seemed to have many of the problems with the Bible that I did -- why did God harden the Pharoah's heart when that resulted in the death of the Egyptian first born? Why did God allow His people to slaughter others? Why did God have a chosen people in the Old Testament?
Most of my grade 12 Sunday school class was on Genesis, and Pharoah hardening his heart was a big discussion involving divine intervention vs. free will that lasted for weeks. I think my teacher was trying to explain that the story isn't really about Pharoah or Moses, but about God's sovereignty. In that God doesn't really need to explain his actions to us. Yeah, it's a tough pill to swallow, but it can be done! Er, so I hear. I'm still working on it :)
Most of her thinking revolves around problems with the Old Testament, although I'd be extremely interested to see if she's written anything on the NT.
Me too. Have to admit, I haven't read anything of hers in years. I should go back and see if there's anything there. But I've always liked her handling of religion. She doesn't bash the church, but she doesn't let church "authorities" run rough-shod over everybody either. And I love the stars singing... Honestly, I don't think that's un-Christian at all. I love the idea of all creation bursting with song and joy.
no subject
Exactly! I have an extremely difficult time dealing with huge goals and plans (as can be seen in the way I go through life... no career goal at all!), and having the small reassurance that yes, the small things are important, comforts me to no end.
I think trusting in the sense of fully believing in something without proof and against all logic and reason is an amazing thing. Yeah, some people may say it's insane, but isn't that the way we love? It's not about what this person did to make me feel today, because I'm sure we can go years on end without understanding certain things. I went through an extremely rough adolescence with my mother -- lots of shouting, crying and general ugliness, but in the end, we both loved each other and that lasted through the years that weren't easy.
I love Madeleine L'Engle so very much. Strangely, I never thought about her rewriting the Bible in Many Waters as an odd thing. I think, to me, the Bible has always been something like myth or legend. I devoured Bible stories as a kid just as I went through all the myth books in the public library.
Heh, I had an argument with the boy before about stars singing. I think I said something like that after we visited the Hayden Planetarium in NY, because something about space and the grandness of so many things like stars out there always gets to me, and that was how I thought about it. And he just looked at me and said something along the lines of "well, I guess they might make some sort of noise when they combust and stuff." I had a very difficult time explaining to him that in this world of fact and science, stars are large balls of gas composed mainly of hydrogen and helium, but somewhere, on another plane, in the world where the Buffy characters are really alive and there was a Garden of Eden, stars sing.