Duane, Diane - So You Want to Be a Wizard

[oyceter]

Nita keeps being beat up by the mean girls at school, so one day, she runs into the library to try and escape them. And there, among all the other So You Want to Be... career books for kids, she finds So You Want to Be a Wizard. She eventually makes friends with Kit, who is also being picked on at school and who also found a copy of the book. Together, they fight crime the evil forces of the universe!

I never read these as a kid, so it's interesting coming to them as an adult. There are a lot of cool bits in this book, from the importance of books and reading and language to being able to talk to trees. Some of the cool bits are fairly standard ones that didn't excite me (magic via Speech, talking to trees), but others were pretty nifty (a burping white hole, talking to machines).

You can clearly see the Tolkein and L'Engle influences on this book, and while I think the Gollum-take is a shoutout to Tolkein, many of the L'Engle influences look more like fic with the numbers filed off than shoutouts, just because so much of the plot is out of A Wind Through the Doors. I didn't mind in the beginning, but the similarities ended up throwing me out of what should have been the main emotional climax of the book.

That said, what makes this book stand apart from the hordes of other "kids discover secret powers and save the world" books is its sense of place. Duane loves New York City, and it shows.

Also, yay for Kit being Hispanic! I am not sure if Nita is or not; her first name is "Juanita," but I think her last name is "Callahan."

I was a little irked at the more traditional male/female split of talents between Kit and Nita; Kit (the boy) leans more toward talking with mechanical objects like cars and trains, while Nita (the girl) has more abilities to talk to plants.

But it was still a fun and fast read, and despite the L'Engle bits, there's enough of Duane's own neat ideas that I may go through the series.

Comments

[kate_nepveu]

Gollum-take?

I don't believe Nita's family is Hispanic, as it's not mentioned anywhere in the books that I can recall.

IMO, the series gets better through the third book, _High Wizardry_; the fourth book is kind of an interlude; and books since have been much more interlinked, sometimes to their detriment.

[oyceter]

The dragon guarding the book, I think? There were quite a few "It's mine, my preciouuuuusssssss, all mine" bits that had me giggling.

I mostly suspected Nita wasn't Hispanic, as it isn't mentioned. Ah well.

So... I am guessing this isn't just a trilogy! ;) Good lord, I seem to be tumbling into series left and right. I'm also curious about Duane's other series for adults; Rachel recced to me a while back, but I don't remember the name. Also, I read this solely so I could read a highly recced Yuletide fic, hee.

[juliansinger.livejournal.com]

It's at about 7 books now. (I've lost track.) They get more complex as the series goes along. (I liked the first two much more than the last several of them.)

[kate_nepveu]

Ah yes, the dragon, thanks.

The series for adults is _The Door Into . . . _ (Fire, Shadow, Sunset). It is very much like the Young Wizards books except in a secondary world with bisexual polyamory. That sounds flip, but I'm serious: Duane has a very characteristic tone and set of concerns.

The first two were reprinted by Meisha Merlin; I don't know how difficult the third is to find. Duane has long said she will write a fourth, which surprised me greatly when I heard it because I didn't see that it needed a fourth, though _ . . . Starlight_ doesn't appear on her "in progress" list at her website.

(There are also a couple of "adult" books in the Young Wizards universe, featuring cat wizards; they aren't as strong.)

And yes, I read that fic, and it was good.

[juliansinger.livejournal.com]

She had a contract for the 4th, got some way in, and then Real Life intruded when she got several TV writing gigs in a row which, as she said, made her a lot more money and made life a lot less difficult.

She doesn't seem to have a contract for it anymore, which is distressing, though I could be wrong.

(For Oyce's info-- She may well show up here. She's got an LJ and all.)

[kate_nepveu]

Meisha Merlin's web page says "We have released Diane Duane from her contract for this series with us, so that she may complete other projects.": http://www.meishamerlin.com/series.html

They were originally going to do _Sunset_ and _Starlight_ in the same volume, which is why _Sunset_ hasn't been reprinted AFAIK.

[juliansinger.livejournal.com]

Oh. They didn't have that up last time I checked. (Just resounding silence. It caused echoes.)

Thanks!

[oyceter]

Oh huh. I don't think I will ever get used to authors dropping by!

[oyceter]

I think I now have a new thing to look for in used bookstores, yay.

[rachelmanija.livejournal.com]

Nita's not Hispanic, though the "Juanita" thing briefly made me wonder as well. We see more of Kit's family in later books. He has a cool sister.

I don't think traditional gender roles occur much in the series overall; book two takes place mostly underwater and thus involves neither plants nor machines, and the third book, which stars Nita's sister, is all about (outdated, unfortunately) computers.

I love the first and second books; the rest of the series is uneven.

I really like Duane's series for adults, the "Door" books which I mentioned. (Three so far.) They have kick-ass women, and everyone is bisexual or possibly pan-sexual.

[octopedingenue]

Yeah, I love book one and like book two and fell out at three. Nita's sister makes my Mary Sue senses tingle, gender roles or no gender roles. But Nita and Kit still kick underrepresented fantasy protagonist ass, and the subtle ongoing gay couple (Tom and...the other guy) are a great touch also.

I read the first Door book and didn't realize it was a series! I will have to check it out; I liked the pansexuality of it and the obvious Fred-prototype. Duane's Spider-Man novelizations also are surprisingly awesome fanfiction, although with now-queasymaking actionplot of bombs on the World Trade Center. (The WTC shows up later in Duane's Stealing the Elf-King's Roses which I anti-rec with waving flags and no more WTC in your books Duane la la thank you oww.)

[rachelmanija.livejournal.com]

Carl is the other guy.

Duane is an uneven writer; Stealing the Elf King's Roses is awful, but I love her Star Trek books, especially Spock's World, which has freaking brilliant flashback sections of ancient Vulcan, and The Wounded Sky, which has the glass spider physicist.

Her Enterprise is full of all sorts of aliens and humans from all sorts of cultures, and it's full of lovely details on how much effort it takes, and how much it's worth it, to accomodate everyone and make everyone as happy as possible. I think it's Spock's World that has the party planning for a party that will have attendees who require everything from personal anti-gravity units to perches, and the appetizers range from guacamole to engine oil.

[jinian.livejournal.com]

(The petroleum appetizers were definitely in the Young Wizards books; I remember that bit vividly, and I haven't read her Trek stuff.)

[cofax7]

I think I finished "Elf-King's Roses", but I've never been as disappointed in a writer I love as with that book.

I love her Trek, generally, (I adore Ael t'Realllhoweverit'sspelled), but I was pretty disappointed by the final volume in the Rihannsu series she just released. It was all battles and strategy, not nearly enough character, and it didn't have the love of the characters and the setting that all the rest of her Trek fiction did. Plus the ending just went flat.

But yes, her Enterprise is marvelous, and the characters are funny and smart and just as you think they must be, if rather more shiny than likely. I adore Wounded Sky and My Enemy, My Ally.

[telophase.livejournal.com]

The third book freaked me the hell out, because being under water where your sight stretches off into the distance and danger can come at you from all six directions and the deeps are unknowable ... major AH GET ME THE HELL OUT OF HERE PANIC PANIC PANIC

[oyceter]

I remember you reccing the Door series!

I mostly picked this one up so I could read that Yuletide fic you recced. I mean, I started it, but I think it'll make a lot more sense now that I actually know who Tom and Carl are.

[octopedingenue]

I love this book so much! Fred and Nita's pen and Peach and the Lexus and the Pledge, which I read aloud every time I read it and still half-expect it to take effect at some point! And yes, New York everywhere; I love the way Duane's love of New York makes the magic of it, gritty concrete pulsing city magic.

[oyceter]

Oh, I loved the car! And the carnage!

I think the one thing that really dropped me out of the book was (spoilers for this book and L'Engle's A Wind in the Door) when Fred sacrificed himself to save everyone, just because he had already been reminding me of Progo, and it was just like the scene in which Progo Xes himself. But other than that, I really liked things like the carnivorous fire hydrant.

[ex-greythist387.livejournal.com]

Oh, interesting. I'd been reading that quite differently: unlike Duane's, L'Engle's books are not (in my experience) about throwing oneself carefully at difficult tasks and burning so brightly one may overextend, whether metaphorically or not. I saw Fred as capsule foreshadowing (forebrightening?) for events you haven't met yet, in book #2 (Deep Wizardry)--and Duane does this a lot: having key characters give much of themselves, then keep giving, sometimes finding that they have more reserves than they'd thought (and sometimes not).

Originally, too, I read the L'Engle and Duane's two wizard books (all there was at the time) the same year, so I'm doubly interested by your link because I didn't see it then at all. :) If you do continue to Deep Wizardry, which is stronger than So You Want, I'm curious to see what you think.

*relurks*

[oyceter]

Interesting! I think I read Fred's death as more sacrificial than anything else, possibly because I'd already had the Fred/Progo connection in my head. But it read as Fred throwing himself in it and sort of knowing that it would have really serious consequences for him.

I stuck further comments on the L'Engle/Duane comparison here, if you're interested.

[sienamystic.livejournal.com]

Of all of the young Wizard books, I love the first and madly adore the second, and mostly enjoy the rest but not with great ardour. I don't rreeeeeaaaally like the third, not being particularly interested in computers or Nita's sister. But the second book, Deep Wizardry, hits all of my buttons and never fails to make me weep buckets.

[oyceter]

I, oddly enough, am now being intrigued by the third book! I spent a lot of this book wondering if the computers talked too and what I would say to mine. Um, yes, I possibly spend entirely too much time on it...

But I'm very curious about the second one now too.

[jinian.livejournal.com]

I'm in the minority that adores the third book, High Wizardry. It does stunningly beautiful things with cosmology. I haven't been crazy about most of the books after the initial three, but they're all worth reading, and I definitely want to see what you think of them. :)

[oyceter]

Huh! I was a little iffy with the star stuff in this book, not because I don't like it (I love it), but because I kept thinking, "L'Engle influences!"

[jinian.livejournal.com]

Hmm, not just stars -- I guess "cosmology" wasn't the right word. The wholeness of existence, definitely including deity, individuals, the nature of Right. ("Theology" wasn't it either. What word do I want?)

It's funny, I don't see L'Engle in it at all. But you remind me that I forgot to tell you it's A Wind in the Door.

[oyceter]

*snorfle* I got it right in a comment at least....

It's funny, I don't see L'Engle in it at all.

Really? Wow! I was thinking it from the very beginning, almost. Fred reminds me a lot of Progo, since they're both larger-than-life beings sent to Earth with much closer relationships to the stars and they both sacrifice themselves to help beat back the bad guy. The Big Bad in Duane's book reminds me a lot of the Echthroi, as does a lot of the cosmology (the almost holiness of living beings, the joy of life, stars, unmaking and unbeing and the absence of love and joy being the ultimate evil).

[kate_nepveu]

Cosmology would not be the right word considering the whopping huge astronomy error Duane makes in the third book. =>

Metaphysics, perhaps?

[jinian.livejournal.com]

Metaphysics is good. Thanks.

What's the huge error?

[kate_nepveu]

See here for the spoilers:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan/browse_frm/thread/1a3a27fbe4830b57/3dc378963cfa4711#3dc378963cfa4711

[jinian.livejournal.com]

Also: OMG have you read the Carl Yuletide story now? I love that story so much!

(I will stop spamming you eventually.)

[oyceter]

I have not yet! I probably will at some point soon, depending on when 20th Century Boys stops eating my braaaaiiiins.

[rushthatspeaks.livejournal.com]

I beta-ed said Yuletide fic, which will tell you how thoroughly I internalized the first Young Wizards trilogy. I love all three of the first ones, though the second is my favorite and one of my favorite books ever. They're readable (except Wizard Abroad, which is horrible) after that, though a tad generic. And I absolutely second or fifth or whatever it is the rec of the Door into... books, especially the second of those, Door Into Shadow, which has the best.dragons.ever and some really cool stuff with time. Read the first first, though.

[oyceter]

Yay beta-ing! Can I read it now, or will it make some more sense after I've read a little more of the series? Rachel mentioned that it works without knowledge of the universe, but I scanned the first few paragraphs a few months ago and decided that it might work better if I knew some more than absolutely nothing.

[(Anonymous)]

You can read it now.

[rachelmanija.livejournal.com]

That was me.

[oyceter]

Great, thanks!

[helen-keeble.livejournal.com]

Wow, I never spotted the similarities between Duane's work and L'Engle's. I think you're right, there's a very similar underlying cosmological theme going on (as well as some possibly similar character types/expressions). Shiny!

A more detailed study would make an awesome essay... (and maybe be something IRoSF or SH would be interested in?) *hint hint* :-)

[oyceter]

I had a few more notes on the similarities here if you're interested, though they're rather sketchy.

Haha, I might try that someday, after I get through the giant backlog of writing that I owe people!

[the-red-baron.livejournal.com]

Hi - was just cruising around livejournal, saw your High Wizardry review, and came back to this through tags.

I remember also being strongly reminded of L'Engle when I first found these books, around age 9 or so. However, when someone brought up L'Engle on Diane Duane's messageboard as an author who deals with similar themes, DD said that she hasn't read much L'Engle and actually kind of disliked the little she has. Surprised the hell out of me, although I can't remember the reasons for the dislike.

[oyceter]

Hi! Cool! It is so nifty to know that people sometimes find things via my obsessively organized tags!

Huh, that's really interesting wrt Duane and L'Engle. Thanks for the note!

[dduane.livejournal.com]

(wanders through) (Waves)

Just to clarify: I did read the first few of L'Engle's YA fantasies when I was in my (thinks) late teens? early twenties? Somewhere there. But her style put me off, and I never read the books that followed.

Also, if there was one of those books that particularly affected me, it would have been A Wind in the Door, which struck me somehow as far better than the book(?s) that led up to it.

...That said: there's always the possibility that something or other in A Wrinkle in Time got under the skin of my brain, as it were, and re-expressed itself here and there in SYWTBAW. But this is an occupational hazard. Writers do have to be careful about what they read. (And this is why I have not read the HP books, and won't read them, probably not for many years: because people who don't look at publication dates tend to assume that the books are outright ripoffs of JKR's material, or an attempt to ride her coattails (the pub dates make clear that this isn't the case) or are only in print because of JKR's success (the republication of the series by Harcourt began the year before Philosopher's Stone came out, and had been contracted for the year before that).

(sigh) Re Gollum: Know him well, of course, but the SYWTBAW dragon's hissing has nothing to do with him. That kind of dragon, well, just hisses. (It is, after all, the source of the steam that comes from under the Manhattan streets. See here (http://www.youngwizards.com/ErrantryWiki/index.php/Fireworm) for details.)

Anyway. (Waves again, wanders on...)

[oyceter]

Hi!

Also, if there was one of those books that particularly affected me, it would have been A Wind in the Door, which struck me somehow as far better than the book(?s) that led up to it.

*nods* Yes, I was mostly seeing similarities to A Wind in the Door.

Thank you for the information.