oyceter | Saiyubito notes (Intl. Saiyuki Wk.)

Saiyubito notes (Intl. Saiyuki Wk.)

I got Saiyubito (technically it should be Saiyuubito, but since the u isn't elongated in Saiyuki, I am going to do the same). Literally, it's the people of the extreme journey; they just substituted "people" for "record" in the title.

It's sadly all in Japanese, so it's taking me forever to flip through, but it has lovely things like a comparison of Saiyuki (and Gaiden) with Journey to the West, a character and place dictionary, and an interview with the Sanzo-ikkou, all by Minekura.

Anyhow, I'm including random notes that I took from the comparison section.

Some spoilers for Saiyuki and Gaiden

Oh, and I found from the dictionary that Chin Yisou's name is actually written as "qin i su" in Chinese (all one color), which is a mahjongg hand! (*takes a moment to squee*) It's basically what happens when your hand is all one suit (there are three suits in mahjongg), with no directions or words (other types of mahjongg tiles).

Minekura did this character by character, so I am too. I also didn't read some characters; hopefully I'll get to the Kougaiji-tachi and assorted other characters later. I'm also going to refer to the Journey to the West characters as Kanon (Kanzeon), Horse (Jeep), Tripitaka (Sanzo), Pig (Hakkai), Monkey (Goku) and Sandy (Gojyo) to avoid confusion. Alas, the Gaiden characters will just have to be confusing.

Sanzo:
The name from the original refers to three "baskets" of Buddhism -- I think they're the vinaya (monastic rule), sutra (teachings attributed to the Buddha himself) and abhidharma (the later, more detailed and philosophical musings and arguments on Buddhism by other, non-Buddha people). San = 3 and zo = treasure/storehouse/something like that. The original Tripitaka was a real person who travelled to India during the Tang dynasty to obtain sutras or other important religious documents and wrote up his adventures. He was dubbed "Sanzo" by the emperor. Someone in the Ming dynasty later turned Tripitaka's memoir into an adventure story.

In Journey, Tripitaka was found by Koumyou floating down the river; Sanzo's origin story in Saiyuki and growing up as Kouryou ("river flow") is right from the book. However, Tripitaka in the book is basically very prissy; he hates killing and he's perpetually confounded by Monkey, Sandy and Pig. Monkey is generally the caretaker for Tripitaka. Tripitaka's a very passive character who always has to be saved by Monkey. Minekura said she basically made Sanzo the opposite of Tripitaka; he takes care of Goku instead of vice versa (except, you know, when he's stupid and needs some sense beaten into him via mahjongg) and he's very obviously capable of defending himself and those under his care.

Minekura also notes that the whole thing about eating the flesh of a Sanzo priest for youkai immortality is also out of the book. There's something about male and female youkai in there that I didn't quite get, but I basically think she's saying that it was always male youkai going after Tripitaka in the book while she changed that to some female youkai in Saiyuki. Also, apparently she kept the same sutra that Tripitaka reads to seal Monkey in (not sure what that means) and has Sanzo use it (though I'm not sure for what).

Goku:
I would just like to note that the character for the cave that Monkey rules over with the other monkeys is the same "ren" in "Kenren" (Water Curtain Cave, b/c it's behind a waterfall, vs. rolled curtain for Kenren). And that Monkey was "born" from a rock on Kakazan (Mountain of Flower and Fruit) in the east part of Heaven. He was imprisoned in Gogyouzan (Mountain of Five Lines/Journeys/Paths) after wreaking havoc in Heaven. Minekura says that the Five Lines thing may come from Monkey being caught after making a bet with Buddha that he could leave the Buddha's hand in x number of jumps, found himself at the base of five enormous pillars, and peed there. Sadly for Monkey, the pillars were Buddha's five fingers.

Monkey's headband in Journey is something placed on him by Tripitaka (Sanzo, otoh, can recreate it, but who knows how it was first created). Tripitaka used it to control Monkey; he'd tighten the band to give Monkey an awful headache if Monkey annoyed him. Since Minekura used the band as a youkai limiter, she said she replaced the headache function with Sanzo's paper fan! (Hee, I love that!)

Also, there's something about Monkey in the book in which he can't be burnt to death. I don't really remember this except as an adventure with some banana leaf fan. Minekura says she didn't put that in the manga, but that's why Goku's eyes are gold.

Gojyo:
Sandy's prior incarnation was as a general in Heaven (w00t!). More on this later. Anyhow, after he was exiled to Earth, he became a river demon and ate travellers. Ew. Also, he had a necklace made out of the nine skulls of monks that he ate that could somehow transform into a boat (there may be a problem with my translation here...). Again, ew. Also, Minekura notes that identifying Sandy as a kappa is a purely Japanese take on the story and not in the original text at all. Apparently in the original, Sandy also had green hair and orange eyes. Possibly this was less striking than Gojyo's coloring ;). He was also the weakest member of the three and usually ended up defending Tripitaka as Pig and Monkey fought youkai. He also guided Horse.

I'm sure it is of no surprise to anyone to note that Minekura largely switched Hakkai and Gojyo (Hakkai being the most defensive fighter, drives Jeep, etc.). But one cool thing that she tried to keep was Sandy's demon nature. In the book, when Tripitaka first sees him, he says something like, "What kind of a youkai are you?" Monkey and Pig are very obviously animal-like in nature, but Sandy isn't. She says that in the book, Sandy is described as having a form unlike a youkai or a human ("Hito to mo youkai to mo tsukane sugata"). She compensated for this by making Gojyo a human-youkai hybrid! (pause for more squealing from me)Yay parallels! Yay Hakkai and Goku being full youkai and Gojyo being half! OMG so much Minekura love!

Hakkai:
Pig was chased out of Heaven (eeeeee! Gaiden! More on this later) and fled to Earth, where he very unfortunately landed in the body of a pig. The name "Hakkai" in the book apparently comes from the 5 (insert kanji I don't know but think may mean vegetables) and the 3 (another kanji that usually means hate but most likely means meat in this context). I am confused because

flemmings said that it referred to the nine renunciations of Buddhism? Possibly there are many interpretations? Anyhow the 5 "vegetables" are two types of "nin'niku" (I have no idea what this is and it's written in katakana -- oh wait, dictionary says garlic), scallions, onions, and leeks. The three meats (or whatever that kanji means in that context) are the geese of the sky, the dogs of the earth and the fish of the water. Maybe it serves as commentary to Pig's appetites? I am so confused. Buddhism has too many numbered things! [ETA: doh. Totally forgot to note that these are the 8 forbidden things to eat. Yeah.]

To make things even more confusing, Minekura adds something about the eight deadly sins (as opposed to the usual seven): pride, envy, gluttony, lust, sloth, "strong wants," rage and vanity. She says something about pride being the same as vanity and are combined as one sin, but I'm confused about the "strong wants" one (literally kyouyoku, strong appetites/desires/wants). Again with the confusion! I think mostly she was just saying how she liked that Hakkai's name fit in that, but to be honest, I really have no idea.

She says that Pig ended up slaughtering all the pigs he lived with and ended up by himself; ergo, inspiration for Hakkai's similar mass murder.

She also notes that Pig was the one who irritated and frustrated Tripitaka the most, and as such, Hakkai became the one to least annoy Sanzo! Another Pig/Sandy/Hakkai/Gojyo characteristic switch!

Jeep:
He's a dragon, which I'm sure everyone knows. Apparently Horse was the third son of the dragon king of the western seas, but his pearl (all dragons have pearls on their foreheads, usually it conveys some special power or immortality or I forget what) was burnt by accident, so he ended up exiled on Earth. Horse than ate Tripitaka's horse, so Kanon made him be Tripitaka's horse, because even in Journey, Kanon is totally the bestest Mary Sue authorial insert ever! Just not a hermaphrodite =(.

Minekura says her original plan was to have Jeep be itan, born of youkai magic and technology (interestingly, technology is literally "chemistry" in Japanese, which even more literally is the study of change). Also, Horse could also change to a beautiful woman and apparently had orange pee (again, this may be weird translation on my part...). Poor Jeep only gets to be a jeep.

Kanzeon Bosatsu:
There's really not much to say about Kanzeon here that most people don't already know. Sadly, Minekura doensn't mention the whole hermaphrodite thing, or at least, not in language that I understood. But I would just like to note that Kanon basically made Sandy, Pig, Monkey and Horse all follow Tripitaka and usually acted as a literal deus ex machina for the ikkou when they got in trouble. So really, Kanzeon being Kanzeon and totally being an author substitute is in the original!

Sadly, there also don't seem to be notes as to why Minekura decided on "Kanzeon" instead of "Kanon." All I know is that the extra "ze" is the kanji for Earth/world. I draw no conclusions. But I do think it's rather interesting.

Saiyuki Gaiden:
Journey consists of two halves; the first is the story of Monkey's birth, his stay in Heaven and his eventual imprinsonment under Gogyouzan, and the second is the actual journey with Tripitaka. Minekura notes that while Tripitaka, Pig and Sandy's previous lives were in Heaven, the original really only has little things like Pig and/or Sandy saying, "Back when I was in Heaven..." Other than that, they weren't in the story at all, and the four never met up there.

Konzen:
Tripitaka's former life was that of Konzen, the second disciple of Siddharta. Originally Konzen's title was Douji (kanji for young'un ^_~) or Chourou (I think... kanji for long and old). He was reborn on Earth in order to better spread the teachings of Buddha. Minekura turned "second disciple of Buddha" to "nephew of Kanzeon." Not much else noteworthy about Konzen =(.

Kenren:
Sandy's former life in Heaven was as a minor official (I think). Very minor. Maybe not even an official. He basically raised and lowered curtains for some deity (name has something to do with clouds, hard kanji that I am too lazy to look up). Ergo the name "kenren" ("roll curtain"). Alas, poor Kenren, he accidentally broke the glass behind the curtain and was cruelly exiled to Earth.

*snork*

I just find the idea of Gaiden Kenren raising and lowering curtains for a living incredibly funny.

Minekura notes that really, she only kept the name.

Obviously.

Tenpou:
Maybe Pig's former life was as a minor official as well. I'm not sure. But anyhow, even up in Heaven, he liked wine and women and ended up getting drunk and did something with something having to do with the moon ("tsuki no sei [rice radical + aoi] (bijou de ninsai/jinsai/hitozuma [I can't figure out how to pronounce it... basically person + wife]) te wo dashi"). I have no idea what that means. I assume it means he got drunk and tried to fondle some beautiful woman having to do with the moon. I have no idea what that person+wife compound means. Minekura notes again that she totally switched Pig and Sandy and that groping the beautiful woman (if that's what that means) is something that Kenren would do.

Apparently, Pig in the original was some type of military guy, because he remarks to Monkey at some point that he does remember them fighting in Heaven and that they were enemies then. Ha! Gojyo/Goku tension!

Goujun:
Ha! I was right! He is related to Goku/Monkey's staff!

Anyhow, Goujun was one of the four dragons of the seas (all brothers). He ruled the Western Seas. All four brothers hated Monkey. Minekura speculates that out of the five elements (Chinese culture has five, not four), Monkey is metal and fire, Pig is wood and water, and Sandy is earth (why not water? huh) and that dragons are weak against the metal element. In the end, the four brothers promise Monkey a cool weapon as a trick. The only catch is, Monkey has to go to the Crystal Palace (under the sea) to retrieve the weapon, and said intended weapon is a very, very heavy staff of iron that none of them can lift. Unfortunately for them, Monkey can, which is how he acquires the nifty nyoibou that can shift shapes and turn needle-sized so he can carry it behind his ear.

Goujun as the prior life of Jeep is a purely Minekura invention. Horse was originally the son of Goujun in the original.

Ok, I am tired now, but I still want to read up on Nataku, Li Touten, Koumyou, Ukoku, the Kou-tachi and... waaaah! Not enough time!

And just as something random, a Gaiden translation note on the scene in vol. one in which Li Touten basically accuses Tenpou of favoring Kenren so much because they're sleeping together. I wanted to know the original because I wanted to know if Li Touten really is implying sex between them or what and if it really is just that slashy!

It so is!

Original: "Kenren Taishou no nyoubouyaku da sou da ga, kimi ga soko made ano otoko ni kodawaru riyuu wa... fufu, yahari dan'na no shita ga ichiban kokochi yoi to iu koto ka?"

Nyoubouyaku = right-hand man; assistant. However, "nyoubou" (woman/female + house) can also mean "wife" (yaku = role). But without the other stuff, Li Touten could just be saying that he heard Tenpou was Kenren's assistant/right-hand man.

Then he goes on: "The reason you've favored that man up till now....[laughs] (that's the "fufu"), it's that you apparently enjoy the feeling of being dan'na no shita, isn't it?"

The "dan'na no shita" isn't bolded in the original, but there are little dots by the words, which I assume are for emphasis.

Anyhow, I had to look it up.

Dan'na = husband. It's also what people call the sole patron of a geisha (aka, the guy who has so much money he buys out her contract). And "shita" is below. Or bottom. And so, the possibly non-sexual "nyoubouyaku" acquires the sexual and wife-ly connotations and Tenpou punches out Li Touten!

Ahhhh, I love Gaiden.

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This is so great! Thank you for writing this up.

I think "strong wants" is probably the sin usually called "Greed" in English, which is distinct from "gluttony" because gluttony is focused on food, satiation, physical pleasures. I like that Minekura links Hakkai's name to food and that he's the cook. :) And it creates an odd symmetry between him and the caterpillar demon, who was given to outrageous and uncontrollable gluttony and greed; there's the sense that Hakkai's murderous rage is as extreme and outrageous as HM (I never remember how to spell either part of the name)'s original depredations.

Oh, duh! I forgot greed was a sin -_-;;.

And I like the connections with Hakkai and Hyakugan Maoh (I'm probably spelling it wrong as well), particularly with Hakkai feeding the group (and Goku, a job in and of itself) and cooking and cleaning, as opposed to the very unfamilial and gross consumption of assorted youkai and/or human women, depending on what the canon is in that regard.

I am so reading Journey to the West after this, because all this half-remembering is driving me nuts.

something having to do with the moon

Tsuki no sei is the sprite of the moon, a moon fairy, I think. 'Got drunk and laid hands on the fairy of the moon, a beautiful woman who was married to someone else.'

The section on Hakkai's name gets confusing, yes. There are probably several interpretations around of why he's eight renunciations; I assumed the verbal play was an unstated one that people would get when reading the text.

Anyway Minekura says there are eight forbidden foods in Buddhism, as you state, and when the gluttonous Pigsy becomes Sanzou's disciple he has to renounce them all, hence he's 'eight renunciations of what he likes best.' (The onions and garlic thing is new by me. I thought all vegetables were allowed under buddhism.)

"In my Saiyuuki Hakkai is a heathen." Oh I wish the Japanese wouldn't borrow western religious terms. Why is he a heathen? Why is Gokuu a heretic? I do not know; go ask your Dad. "So part of the background (hm- ura settei: I think that's an assumption implicit in her settei that you don't get from reading the work), I've decided, is that the Sanbutsushin gave him his name from the Catholic religion's eight cardinal vices that are the grounds of the Seven Deadly Sins. Pride, envy, gluttony, lust, sloth, avarice (strong wants) anger and vanity, which later was combined with pride to form the Seven Deadly Sins."

In the novel Pigsy devoured the female boar who gave him birth and killed all the other boars in the region and lived alone in the mountains. In imoitation of this I made my Hakkai a mass- murderer.

Imitation even.

And maybe that 'heathen' ikyouto is to be taken literally- different religion follower. So he *is* a Catholic, as Kanan's cross and the anime's convent would suggest.

The onions and garlic thing is because they are "heating" foods and so may stir up hot (passionate) feelings and desires, like anger and lust. At least, that's why they're forbidden by certain Indian sects, and there was a lot of interplay between India and China way back when Buddhism was traveling from one to the other, so I assume that's where it comes from.

I love your translation and story notes!

Goujun as the prior life of Jeep is a purely Minekura invention.
Is this canon in Saiyubito? I thought this was only fan speculation--granted, fan speculation with much evidence to support it.

By the way, I've finally read through my Japanese editions of Saiyuki Reload 1-5 with translations, so I can lend them out now if you're still interested.

Jiip = Goujun comes from one of the Backgammon collections with pencil sketches of the Gaiden charas and a pencilled note next to Goujun- 'Jiip's former incarnation.' Unfortunately, from what I can see in Saiyuubito, she's abandoned that (evidently early) idea; certainly the book never says outright that Jiip is Goujun.

She says in Saiyubito something like there are developing nuances that Goujun is Jeep's former life. The statement's a little fuzzy around the edges b/c she uses more circuitous language, but I can't tell if it's because she's deliberately holding out, because she hasn't quite decided yet, or she just doesn't want to put it directly.

So from just that bit, it doesn't sound like it's un-canon, but not canonized either ;).

And oh, I would love to see the Japanese editions!

Hastily--

Also, apparently she kept the same sutra that Tripitaka reads to seal Monkey in (not sure what that means) and has Sanzo use it (though I'm not sure for what).

Doesn't Sanzo read a sutra to replace Goku's limiter at some point? Volume 6, I think?

I thought in that instance he recited/activated the sutra to immobilize Goku long enough to replace the limiter, but you could be right.

In the original Journey (I've been reading the Anthony Yu translation), Tripitaka has to recite a specific sutra to make the headband tighten to punish and immobilize Monkey, and does so often, but he doesn't have a sutra he can use defensively or as a weapon like Sanzo does -- I'm guessing that's what's meant by "kept the same sutra" (but using it for something else)?

Also, for what it's worth, the headband was initially given to Sanzo to use on Monkey by Kannon, which is maybe reflected in Kanzeon being the first one to replace Goku's limiter (not counting Burial) in Vol 2's Rikudo arc.

Or you might be right--though I think someone reflects to "sealing" someone's movement at one point in the series, so that might count all the same?

Or I could stop commenting until I have my books at hand. =>

Hee!

You know, I totally thought she was talking about the whole sutra to replace/recreate/immobilize Goku bit and had actually scrawled that in my notes, but then on rereading, I don't think she says that specifically.

OOo I didn't think of that! Who replaces/recreates Goku's limiter in Gaiden? Is that Kanzeon as well, since she basically is the one who stops him? I totally don't remember...

It's Konzen, with his 'When we met, it was you who first held out your hand to me' line.

Awwwww!

That part kills me!

Also, no wonder I couldn't find the moment while flipping through Gaiden vol. 2 ;).

Roll on Gaiden vol 3. I mean, don't roll too fast because that means the series is over, but do roll because searching a tank is easier than searching a bunch of loose-leaf pages ripped from WARD, so, well. Roll with all deliberate speed.

No, Goku takes off the limiter, and then Sanzo uses the sutra to hold him in place and put it back on his head. The limiter is never broken or recreated since Kanzeon Bosatsu recreates it after it spontaneously shatters when it looks like Sanzo's dying and Goku goes berserk.

Interesting that Goku gets little flashes of Gaiden times when he becomes Seiten Taisei. Perhaps it's only Goku's memories that were sealed, not Seiten Taisei's, and yet when he does remember, there's no emotional attachment because he's in pure destructive mode, so he doesn't care, and then they're gone.

Oooo. I wonder if Goku starts remembering more and more after being Seiten Taisei increasingly.

Hrm.

maybe should write more Goku fic curse Minekura have no time!

This is really interesting, thank you for typing it all out and doing so much translation! I love Gaiden so much, too.

I've been reading the Anthony Yu translation of Journey to the West over the past several months (currently working through volume 3), and I've really been enjoying picking out the echoes and the things which Minekura has turned completely on their heads. But from your translations of her comments on it, which I hadn't seen before, I wonder if the Japanese versions of the story are rather different than the Chinese 'original' (actually there were collections of stories about the journey before, from what I understand, but that one was the most complete, much larger and more continuous than the others).

For example, it seems that the Dragon Kings are more afraid of him and frustrated about him disrupting everything than actively disliking him and wanting to work against him -- they actually do help him out without argument several times after the first time, when Monkey gets his staff.

In that chapter, he goes to the Dragon King of the Eastern Sea (the eldest) and demands a weapon. Nothing the Eastern King's attendants bring out is good enough for Monkey, but he refuses to leave and let normal life in the palace resume until he gets what he wants -- so they finally suggest that he go try to take that big pole they found but could not move. Once he claims the giant pole as his staff (and gains the power to change its size), he still won't leave but demands armour to go with it, so the Eastern King calls his three younger brothers to bring some -- leading to Goujun's first appearance.

When they arrive they protest for a while but see that Monkey really can't be argued with and give him magical(?) golden armour: a cap (from the Southern Dragon King), a cuirass (from the Western Dragon King), and shoes (from the Northern Dragon King). Afterwards the brothers submit a protest to the Heavenly Emperor about their wounded diginity, and that becomes part of the reason that Monkey gets "invited" to Heaven to be tamed.

I've wondered if the similiarity between Goujun's and Goku's clawed shoulder armour is a reference to that .

I've also been meaning to post excerpts from the chapter where Horse takes matters into his own hands, and turns into a beautiful dancing girl (who can sword-fight!) to try to distract and defeat an enemy that had defeated all the others. ^_^

Alas, he was not successful either: it ended up being yet another one of many, many instances where they needed Kannon to step in and help bail them out, which she does so much more than in Saiyuki.

I wish I knew about the Japanese version of Journey vs. the Chinese version! I also wonder how the different translations work, and etc. Also, I wonder if it works much like a folk tale; the Waley translation I read a really long time ago as a kid only has some parts. And then there was a comic book version that my mom read aloud to me and my sister, and that had different parts. I'm guessing a lot of people probably just know bits and pieces from everywhere, cobbled together from all sorts of sources?

Horse chapter! I heard there was canonical Horse mpreg as well!

Journey totally cracks me up.

I definitely agree that there are so many different versions and interpretations, including modern retellings -- I mean, look at the different versions of Minekura's own version (manga, anime, drama CDs) and how they sometimes contradict, or at least put different spins on certain things.

I still intend to type out bits of the Horse-transforming-genderswitching-asskicking(almost) chapter, but currently expecting my partner's parents to "drop by for a visit" any minute and I have no idea how long they're staying. Soon, though!

I hadn't come across canonical Horse mpreg, but I did post about the Tripitaka and Pigsy Canonical Mpreg (http://kintail.livejournal.com/62354.html), which was indeed hilarious.

I also posted about the slash-tastic language of the passage about the first encounter with Sandy: here (http://kintail.livejournal.com/37929.html).

And while I'm self-pimping so shamelessly, I might as well include that in that version of JttW, the dragon prince who becomes horse is sentenced to death because of accidently burning pearls hanging in a palace, I didn't see any mention of the pearls being on anyone's head, and I wrote a Gaiden fic inspired by it (which doesn't include any literal pearls anyway) here (http://kintail.livejournal.com/36011.html)

*embarrassed cough*

Oh yeah, I remember that mpreg post! That rocked!

And thanks so much for all the links ^_^.

Wow, this is great.

Also, Horse could also change to a beautiful woman and apparently had orange pee (again, this may be weird translation on my part...).

And also very funny!

I'm having a little trouble parsing the grammar of Li Touten's insult... Is he saying Tenpou is both the husband and the bottom, or Kenren is the husband and Tenpou is the bottom?

I've always loved that bit. Especially given the other when Tenpou and Kenren are fighting together, and I think Kenren asks why Tenpou's fighting on his behalf, and Tenpou says an insult to Kenren is an insult to him, and Kenren says he didn't realize they had such a matrimonial relationship.

Li Touten's basically saying that Tenpou is acting as the wife/right-hand man of Kenren the husband, and that Tenpou enjoys being under/below (probably in all senses of the word) Kenren the husband.

*snork*

I love Kenren and Tenpou.

Thank you for these notes, they're very entertaining!

He was also the weakest member of the three and usually ended up defending Tripitaka

Gojyo still is the weakest, or at least sees himself in that way. As he says in vol 6: 'I'm nothing compared to the other three'. And we also often get to see Sanzo standing in the middle of Gojyo's whirling chains. A nice image, but there's also that sense of him protecting Sanzo.

The fanlation I've read of Li Touten's line says something along the lines of 'because you enjoy serving under your husband'. Is that what Li Touten is saying here? It sounds like it. I do also love how Tenpou and Kenren's 'matrimonial' relationship is reflected in Gojyo's and Hakkai's domestic arrangements.

"Kenren Taishou no nyoubouyaku da sou da ga, kimi ga soko made ano otoko ni kodawaru riyuu wa fufu, yahari dan'na no shita ga ichiban kokochi yoi to iu koto ka

I hear you're General Kenren's right-hand man. The reason you're so concerned about that guy- is it that, snigger snigger, after all you really like being /under/ him?

Danna no shita ga ichiban kokochi yoi means literally, in one reading, under your husband is the pleasantest. Kokochi yoi IME usually refers to a place that you like to be in, that's comfortable, that feels good. But there's an alternative reading I've come across that makes danna no shita mean 'your husband's under parts.' I'm used to a different phrase for that (half-body) but my sexual vocabulary comes from yaoi so I don't know which is the usual term. But if that's the sense, the sentence means 'after all, your husband's cock is the pleasantest.'

I've wanted for the longest time to find a Japanese that I could ask which meaning is likeliest here, but my conversation partners have never been yaoi fans, alas.

I think there are probably several ways to translate Li Touten's line, all of which seem to have many slashy implications ^_^. So he could either be implying that Tenpou is the uke, that Tenpou is playing the female role (and thereby insulting Tenpou's masculinity), that Tenpou enjoys serving under Kenren in a non-sexual way, or, you know, all of the above.

A non-sexual interpretation wouldn't be insulting enough to prompt Tenpou to punch him out, I would think. I think "shita" is the operative word there.

Well, the "shita" is pretty insulting, but then, so is the whole "wife/right-hand-man" and "husband" thing. And I figure Li Touten could be insulting Tenpou's manhood. But I prefer to think that Tenpou punches him out for the attempt to insult, as opposed to feeling insulted about being called Kenren's wife ;).

It's insulting because it's said as an insult, not because it's not true.;)

Well, the husband-wife thing is clearly true; I have never cared particularly about top-bottom dynamics, and anyway, since they're immortal, ageless, bored, and hot, I expect they've done everything they can possibly do with each other, in every combination. Twice.

And whoo to that!

Yeah, I don't particularly like the codification of the seme/uke dynamic, but then, that's a whole 'nother post...

Ooh, this is wonderful! Thanks for doing it.

Thank you! I had a lot of fun reading Saiyubito as well ^_^.

I assume it means he got drunk and tried to fondle some beautiful woman having to do with the moon. I have no idea what that person+wife compound means.

Going by what I know of the story, which is in Chinese, is that the woman was called Chang E, who flew to the moon and was trapped there or something with a jade rabbit? There's a myth about her. It's been ages though. XD

Yeah, I wasn't sure if it was Chang E or not because it doesn't mention her by name. And I suppose there could be an entire assortment of moon fairies or whatnot in Japanese mythology....

(In the comments, from a student of Japanese): http://telophase.livejournal.com/465866.html?thread=3942602#t3942602

Yay Hakkai and Goku being full youkai and Gojyo being half!

I'd just like to say that Goku's an itan, not a youkai.

Gotcha, thanks!

Np ^^

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Saiyubito notes (Intl. Saiyuki Wk.)

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